Re-instate Middlesex County Council.

John-C · 24-06-2005, 01:23 PM

Middlesex has suffered particularly badly at the hands of the monstrous "Greater London" entity, although is administered partly by other County Councils too, which have also taken some of it's territory.

The County of Middlesex still exists, of course, but it needs more rexcognition.

This Party has representatives on the "Greater London" Assembly, and they should support the re-instatement of Middlesex as a fully-functioning administrative unit.

John-C · 24-06-2005, 06:32 PM

I think any of the first three options would be an inprovement on the status quo. I also accept that there are many for whom the idea of the old L.C.C. area is better, and more likely to happen, than the full restoration of the entirity of Middlesex as an administrative unit.

John-C · 27-06-2005, 02:18 PM

In the "Traditional Counties" thread, Britannist wrote that the people of Middlesex want a return to the County of Middlesex. This is entirely right, as is most or all of what he or she has said on this in this thread. A few years ago, there was an organization called the Friends of the County of Middlesex. It was a very popular and sucessful campaign to raise awareness, and got some "Welcome to the County of Middlesex" road signs erected and a few other such things. The other counties would, as he/she says, welcome their territory back from the obscene entity that is "Greater London".

London could, in some suggestions for re-organization, have it's own County, i.e. the old L.C.C. (which is about the London Post Code area), or some slightly different area, as in the poll options above.

Paul Brich wrote (in the "Traditional Counties" thread) that most people in Middlesex don't even know they're there. This is wrong. It is also incorrect to say or imply that Middlesex hasn't been on postal addresses for years and that the towns are given London addresses and postcodes. This is not true, other than for the areas more near to London, i.e. those within the London postcode area, which roughly corresponds with the old L.C.C.

Paul is wrong to imply that people in Middlesex don't have any County loyalty or knowledge of their area. He may have lived in Middlesex but so did I, and my experience is markedly different to his. I'm not saying everyone thought like I do and not like him, but he can't say it is the other way round.

What's so Libertarian about allowing a monstrous entity such as "Greater London" to swallow up most of the County of Middlesex, thereby depriving people of their link to their history, just the sort of thing George Orwell vigorously opposed and warned against.

I do suggest that the old L.C.C. area could form a modern London area council, to compromise with those who oppose full Middlesex independence as unrealistic. However, the current situation is highly offensive, and must go.

I have put a copy of this onto the Middlesex County Council thread, as that seems to be the best place for a strictly Middlesex based discussion. l

John-C · 28-06-2005, 09:11 AM

Paul Birch wrote, in the "Traditional Counties" thread, that "Greater London" was no more offensive than Great Britain. This is not a proper analagy, as Great Britain recognizes the existence of the seperate countries which make it up.

How would you like it, Paul, if Portsmouth or Southampton had expanded greatly and the Isle of Wight were to become part of Greater Portsmouth or Greater Southampton?, or if Hampshire were to be entirely swallowed up INTO phpbb_such a creation?.

Greater London is a measureless monstrosity, denying and subjugating the individual identities of towns and areas subsumed INTO phpbb_it. Middlesex must be allowed to be recognized properly, in answer to your question, Paul, about why the M.C.C., in some form, must return.

John-C · 20-07-2005, 12:22 PM

Britannist, you have written elsewhere on this Forum that you are involved with something else (other than this Forum or U.K.I.P. which relates to what I gather must be a campaign for greater recognition of Middlesex as a County. Could you let us know what this is, by any chance. I am interested to know. The Friends of the County of Middlesex was a good group, but I think they do not exist now, or are no-longer active. I can't find out anything about the County of Middlesex Trust. I have had no reply to a message sent to the ABC Counties group about currently active campaign(s) concerning Middlesex.

Could you give details regarding this, if you are involved in, or know of, such a campaign? (ditto if anyone else knows of any such campaign.

Middlesex, like the Inch, needs support!.

Britannist · 20-07-2005, 05:37 PM

Reply to John C. (regarding his posting of 20.7.2005 to this thread):

Thanks John for setting up this interesting thread. I will vote (in the poll at the top of this page) for the revival of Middlesex in full on principal – although my campaigning is presently geared to the more attainable objective of recovering the Middlesex of 1965 alongside an authority for ‘inner London’ based on the boundaries of the London County Council (dissolved 1965).

I have been searching without success to locate the Friends of Middlesex. If I come across contact details for them, I’ll post them on either this thread or a new one (if this thread is no longer ‘open’). I intend to keep llooking. The work I’m involved with on Middlesex (which you refer to in your last posting in this thread) is connected with the collation of information/data/statistics on our shared wish to see the abolition of the Greater London Assembly (GLA) – which is an imposter authority encroaching on Middlesex to no benefit of the 2.1 million people in Middlesex county (1965 boundaries). If I am not able to track down the Friends of Middlesex (or any similar campaigning organisation), I intend to use the file of information I’m building up on the County of Middlesex/GLA to re-launch the pro-Middlesex campaign myself (or to find someone else to do it). I suppose I can’t always leave the ‘donkey-work’ to others!

By the way, the Lieutenancy Act 1997 formally confirmed the existence of the County of Middlesex (and others) as non-administrative counties represented by the Lord Lieutenants. Therefore, Middlesex legally exists as a county (most of which is presently within the administrative jurisdiction of the Greater London County as governed by the Greater London Assembly). That is the exact status of Middlesex within the constitutional structures of the UK. The Middlesex borough of Spelthorne is presently under the administrative jurisdiction of Surrey County Council.

The County of Middlesex, as you well know, also retains its status within the British postal system network (albeit in two separate geographical catchment areas). The following areas of the County of Middlesex are designated as Middlesex postcode units –

Area 1 (western Middlesex): Northwood, Pinner, Harrow, Stanmore, Edgware, Ruislip Wembley, Northolt, Greenford, West Drayton, Hayes, Southall, Brentford, Isleworth, Hounslow, Staines, Ashford, Feltham, Twickenham, Shepperton, Sunbury-on-Thames, Hampton and Teddington

Area 2 (north-east Middlesex): Enfield

*For postcode designations, other areas of the County of Middlesex (based on its 1965 boundaries) are, as you know, within the London postcode network (postcodes beginning N.W. and N) - thus causing the geographical postal area split within the County of Middlesex - between west (Area 1, above) and North-east (Area 2, above). Potters Bar does not, presently, have a Middlesex postcode – its presence within the UK postcode network is (at this point in time) represented as it being within Hertfordshire (it was wrongfully transferred from Middlesex INTO phpbb_the administrative county of Hertfordshire in 1965).

So, there are already two versions of the County of Middlesex in formal recognition today – the County of Middlesex non-administrative County (as in the Lieutenancy Act 1997) and the Middlesex postcode area. What I now seek is – at the very least – is:

The diminution of the western and northern boundary of the Greater London Assembly (GLA) and Greater London County (north of the river Thames) – thus removing control of the bogus GLA from all the areas of the County of Middlesex (as Middlesex boundaries were defined in 1965)

This can best be achieved by a future House of Commons (almost certainly one eurosceptic in its composition) allowing London boroughs to opt for all-purpose status (self-governing units). This status has been gained by the cities of Derby, Brighton and others. The GLA would then cease to be a London-wide administrative body. The fracturing of the GLA would lead to its possible demise as an authority – thus rendering the Greater London so-called ‘county’ useless.

The way forward to achieve the revival of the status of Middlesex is to follow the example of Great Grimsby. The town became the Borough of Grimsby in the artificially-created bogus so-called 'county' of Humberside (an invention of the pro-EU Heathites) in 1974. Humberside was one of the most hated of the Heathite 'counties'. Grimsby Borough then changed its name to ‘Great Grimsby’ after the dissolution of Humberside County 'Council'. When the option of altering the status of the Borough of Great Grimsby to that of an all-purpose, self-governing authority (outside of the control of any county council) became available, Grimsby and its environs then officially became ‘The Borough of North-East Lincolnshire’ within the non-administrative county of Lincolnshire.

I subscribe to the view that certain ‘London’ boroughs will also attain self-government within the non-administrative county of Middlesex – and outside of the control of the GLA. The Greater London so-called 'county' (GLC) will then be undermined to the point where the argument on its abolition moves to the mainstream. It (the Greater London 'county') existed before the UK entered the EEC/EU and it should not, therefore, be subject to the outrageous EU rule of ‘Acquis Communitaire’ (whereby EU legislation on matters including the EU regionalisation objective cannot legally be overturned by any UK government – now or in the future).

Anyone arguing that the boundaries of the Greater London 'county' are set in stone is living in cloud cuckoo land. The Boundary Commission would relish the opportunity to do a bit of 'carving' on it. Extension of GLC boundaries is a non-starter because hostility to London-rule is widespread in the Home Counties. There is only one other way to go for the GLA/GLC - downwards. Reduction in size to the boundaries of the now defunct London County Council (or something slightly larger than the old LCC).

Bellatrix · 24-07-2005, 07:18 PM

I live in Middx. and I am represented (badly) by Surrey County Council. Would rather not be organised by a load of liberal do-gooders obsessed with Road Humps and support a return to MCC.

Britannist · 24-07-2005, 08:46 PM

Thanks Bellatrix for your support for the County of Middlesex.

John-C · 26-07-2005, 02:58 PM

Thank-you very much, Britannist, for your excellent reply on this topic, and also thanks for support from Bellatrix too.

I think, on the point about "London" Boroughs being free to drop the "London" (and perhaps insert "Middlesex" in it's place in relevant cases, or other variant titles acknowledging the County), that the Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames and, in London, the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, would tend to show that alternate names might actually be possible even while the current so-called "London" Boroughs exist at their current boundaries. If it is possible for a "London" Borough to actually be called a Royal Borough (with no reference to "London" in it's title), may give rise to some hope that we could see, for instance, the "Middlesex Borough of Hillingdon", or the "Borough of Richmond Upon Thames", or other such titles dropping "London", where the Borough is either entirely or largely outside of London (as defined by either the old L.C.C., or London Postcode area, or other boundary which takes account of the County of Middlesex.

My aim, and I'm sure yours too, Britannist, is the re-drafting of such "London" Boroughs, to make boroughs consistent with the Counties, (as opposed to amalgamations between Surrey, Middlesex, and the old L.C.C. or London Postcode area, as in Richmond Upon Thames). However, as a first step in the right direction, the simple and hopefully relatively easily-achievable re-naming of the relevant Boroughs would be a serious advance when compared to the current situation.

A pro-Middlesex group is very much needed. I agree that it would do best to concentrate on either the pre-1965 Middlesex boundaries, with the L.C.C. / the London postcode area, or some other slightly different area.

I think a non-political group stands the best chance, like the B.W.M.A., steadfastly non-political and attracting support from genuinely right across the political spectrum. I know that the astrologer Russell Grant was either the main force, or one of the main forces, behind the Friends of the County of Middlesex (which I believe he set up), and was also in the County of Middlesex Trust. I would think that if you could find a way of contacting him, he would probably know whether any current groups exist, and/or may be able or willing to get involved in such a group again. His help ensured a lot of good publicity and some successes in the Friends in the past.

It is indeed heartening to hear of support for better recognition for the County of Middlesex.

Anthony Butcher · 29-07-2005, 04:37 PM

Quote:

I have been following the 'Re-instate Middlesex County Council' thread on your boards and thought your readers might be interested in posting the attached news release on that thread.

There was a news item about the raid on 'Look North' and on BBC Radio Lincolnshire and the 'Lincolnshire Echo' is covering the news story tomorrow.

We plan other raids in North East Lincolnshire, Warwickshire and Lancashire.

I am afraid, being moderate, we regard the demand to reinstate Middlesex as extreme, but there you go, you always get these extremists in politics. The BBC tell me that Russell Grant is a strong advocate of reinstating Middlesex, by the way

Tony Bennett

Quote:

MEDIA ADVICE – Immediate Thurs., 28 July 2005, 11am
-------------------------------------------
Seven ‘Welcome to Lincolnshire’ road signs moved form Brigg and Gainsborough areas to Humber Bridge by CountyWatch

“Lincolnshire starts where Yorkshire finishes, not 20 miles INTO phpbb_Lincolnshire” - Tony Bennett, Chairman, CountyWatch

In its second major action to encourage local authorities like Lincolnshire County Council to respect traditional County boundaries and place County ‘welcome’ signs on their correct historical borders, a team of six members of County Watch yesterday dismantled 7 signs saying ‘Welcome to the County of Lincolnshire’. Until yesterday, these signs were placed on ‘A’ and ‘B’ roads around Gainsborough and Brigg, marking the boundary between the unitary authority of North Lincolnshire (whose main town is Scunthorpe) and the administrative unit known - incorrectly - as the County of Lincolnshire).

The CountyWatch team took the signs to the Humber Bridge, where photos were taken of these signs in their correct location. They were then take to a depot of North Lincolnshire Council in Barton-on-Humber. The CountyWatch team then informed Area Highways Manager for Lincolnshire, Mr Eric Jorgensen, where he could collect the signs. Mr Jorgensen expressed sympathy with the aims of CountyWatch, stating that people entering Lincolnshire should be told they were entering Lincolnshire immediately they leave Yorkshire to cross the Humber Bridge, not in the middle of Lincolnshire. He disagreed with CountyWatch’s methods.

BBC ‘Look North’ Part of the day’s action was filmed by BBC ‘Look North’ and a broadcast about the raid was transmitted on their regional programmes last night.

North East Lincolnshire There are several more signs stating ’Welcome to the County of Lincolnshire’ on the border between North East Lincolnshire and the administrative unit of the County of Lincolnshire - south and west of Grimsby. Chairman of CountyWatch Tony Bennett said: “We’ll give the authorities a few weeks to sort things out and place those ‘Welcome to Lincolnshire’ signs where they should be. If they don’t, we’ll remove all the other ones currently on the border with North East Lincolnshire. They give inaccurate information. In 1974, when the government drastically reorganised local government and created the unpopular administrative unit called Humberside, it made the following promise:

‘The new County boundaries are for administrative areas and will not alter the traditional boundaries of Counties, nor is it intended that the loyalties of people living in them will change’.

Said Tony: “We are trying to ensure that Lincolnshire officials keep to that government promise. Many people are attached to their county. We have the Lincolnshire Regiments, Lincolnshire Cricket Club, Lincolnshire sausages and many other institutions covering the whole county, not just a bit of it. The historic County of Lincolnshire did not shrink when Humberside was formed”.

CountyWatch carried out a similar planned raid on signs in mid-Somerset last year, moving signs stating ‘Welcome to the County of Somerset’ to more appropriate places on the borders with Wiltshire and Gloucestershire. The administrative area of the County of Somerset has been shrunk in size by around a third through the creation of the unitary authorities of North Somerset, and Bath and North East Somerset (BANES).

CountyWatch plans similar raids in the near future on signs incorrectly making the current boundary of the historic County of Lancashire and Warwickshire. The administrative area now known as Lancashire is about one-third of the size of its former size in 1974.

NOTES FOR EDITORS:

CountyWatch was formed to combat the gradual destruction of England’s County boundaries. The process of destroying them began with Edward Heath’s 1972 Local Government Act, which removed several Counties from the map of England and drastically altered the boundaries of several others. New County names like ‘Avon’, ‘Cleveland’ and ‘Humberside’ suddenly appeared on the map of England.

Since then, England’s historic Counties have been mangled still further by the creation of so-called ‘unitary’ authorities, which are given the functions of Counties. One County, the Royal County of Berkshire, has been virtually wiped off the map through these processes - either moved INTO phpbb_Oxfordshire or carved up INTO phpbb_‘Unitaries’. The process - already under way - of setting up elected Regional Assemblies across England, will create of many more ‘Unitaries’ and heralds the final destruction of our County boundaries.

Substantial parts of the following Counties have also been carved up by creating ‘Unitaries’ or shifting County boundaries: Bedfordshire, Cheshire, Essex, Hampshire, Huntingdonshire, Westmorland and Yorkshire.

To this end, CountyWatch takes actions designed to remind people and the authorities of where the true historic boundaries of the counties lie. It is not acceptable for people to drive through half of Somerset or Lincolnshire only to come across signs saying: ‘Welcome to Somerset’ or ‘welcome to Lincolnshire.

CountyWatch believes that the authorities which have erected County signs in the wrong places have no legal authority for doing so. Says Tony Bennett: “These signs are unlawfully placed on the highway within the meaning of Section 131(2) of the Highways Act 1980 and under that Section, any member of the public is entitled to remove them”. When we move incorrectly-placed County signs to places on the correct traditional borders, they will inform passing motorists and pedestrians where these historic boundaries lie. Our actions are not theft, nor criminal damage; they are simply carried out to fulfil the intention of the government’s 1974 statement, quoted above.

ENDS

View Poll Results: Which should we do?
Re-instate Middlesex County Council, as at pre-1965 boundaries.	10	45.45%
Re-instate Middlesex County Council, as at pre the old London County Council boundaries.	5	22.73%
Re-instate Middlesex County Council, based on new boundaries, eg. allowing a larger London County Council than existed before 1965, but not as large as the present "Greater London" area. (i.e. allowing a smaller Middlesex, but not no Middx. admi	1	4.55%
Allow the status quo (with no current Middlesex County Council).	4	18.18%
Some other option.	2	9.09%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

24-06-2005, 01:23 PM	#1 (permalink)
John-C Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Wales. Posts: 113	Re-instate Middlesex County Council. Middlesex has suffered particularly badly at the hands of the monstrous "Greater London" entity, although is administered partly by other County Councils too, which have also taken some of it's territory. The County of Middlesex still exists, of course, but it needs more rexcognition. This Party has representatives on the "Greater London" Assembly, and they should support the re-instatement of Middlesex as a fully-functioning administrative unit.

20-07-2005, 05:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	Change of government will lead to fracturing of the GLA Reply to John C. (regarding his posting of 20.7.2005 to this thread): Thanks John for setting up this interesting thread. I will vote (in the poll at the top of this page) for the revival of Middlesex in full on principal – although my campaigning is presently geared to the more attainable objective of recovering the Middlesex of 1965 alongside an authority for ‘inner London’ based on the boundaries of the London County Council (dissolved 1965). I have been searching without success to locate the Friends of Middlesex. If I come across contact details for them, I’ll post them on either this thread or a new one (if this thread is no longer ‘open’). I intend to keep llooking. The work I’m involved with on Middlesex (which you refer to in your last posting in this thread) is connected with the collation of information/data/statistics on our shared wish to see the abolition of the Greater London Assembly (GLA) – which is an imposter authority encroaching on Middlesex to no benefit of the 2.1 million people in Middlesex county (1965 boundaries). If I am not able to track down the Friends of Middlesex (or any similar campaigning organisation), I intend to use the file of information I’m building up on the County of Middlesex/GLA to re-launch the pro-Middlesex campaign myself (or to find someone else to do it). I suppose I can’t always leave the ‘donkey-work’ to others! By the way, the Lieutenancy Act 1997 formally confirmed the existence of the County of Middlesex (and others) as non-administrative counties represented by the Lord Lieutenants. Therefore, Middlesex legally exists as a county (most of which is presently within the administrative jurisdiction of the Greater London County as governed by the Greater London Assembly). That is the exact status of Middlesex within the constitutional structures of the UK. The Middlesex borough of Spelthorne is presently under the administrative jurisdiction of Surrey County Council. The County of Middlesex, as you well know, also retains its status within the British postal system network (albeit in two separate geographical catchment areas). The following areas of the County of Middlesex are designated as Middlesex postcode units – Area 1 (western Middlesex): Northwood, Pinner, Harrow, Stanmore, Edgware, Ruislip Wembley, Northolt, Greenford, West Drayton, Hayes, Southall, Brentford, Isleworth, Hounslow, Staines, Ashford, Feltham, Twickenham, Shepperton, Sunbury-on-Thames, Hampton and Teddington Area 2 (north-east Middlesex): Enfield *For postcode designations, other areas of the County of Middlesex (based on its 1965 boundaries) are, as you know, within the London postcode network (postcodes beginning N.W. and N) - thus causing the geographical postal area split within the County of Middlesex - between west (Area 1, above) and North-east (Area 2, above). Potters Bar does not, presently, have a Middlesex postcode – its presence within the UK postcode network is (at this point in time) represented as it being within Hertfordshire (it was wrongfully transferred from Middlesex INTO phpbb_the administrative county of Hertfordshire in 1965). So, there are already two versions of the County of Middlesex in formal recognition today – the County of Middlesex non-administrative County (as in the Lieutenancy Act 1997) and the Middlesex postcode area. What I now seek is – at the very least – is: The diminution of the western and northern boundary of the Greater London Assembly (GLA) and Greater London County (north of the river Thames) – thus removing control of the bogus GLA from all the areas of the County of Middlesex (as Middlesex boundaries were defined in 1965) This can best be achieved by a future House of Commons (almost certainly one eurosceptic in its composition) allowing London boroughs to opt for all-purpose status (self-governing units). This status has been gained by the cities of Derby, Brighton and others. The GLA would then cease to be a London-wide administrative body. The fracturing of the GLA would lead to its possible demise as an authority – thus rendering the Greater London so-called ‘county’ useless. The way forward to achieve the revival of the status of Middlesex is to follow the example of Great Grimsby. The town became the Borough of Grimsby in the artificially-created bogus so-called 'county' of Humberside (an invention of the pro-EU Heathites) in 1974. Humberside was one of the most hated of the Heathite 'counties'. Grimsby Borough then changed its name to ‘Great Grimsby’ after the dissolution of Humberside County 'Council'. When the option of altering the status of the Borough of Great Grimsby to that of an all-purpose, self-governing authority (outside of the control of any county council) became available, Grimsby and its environs then officially became ‘The Borough of North-East Lincolnshire’ within the non-administrative county of Lincolnshire. I subscribe to the view that certain ‘London’ boroughs will also attain self-government within the non-administrative county of Middlesex – and outside of the control of the GLA. The Greater London so-called 'county' (GLC) will then be undermined to the point where the argument on its abolition moves to the mainstream. It (the Greater London 'county') existed before the UK entered the EEC/EU and it should not, therefore, be subject to the outrageous EU rule of ‘Acquis Communitaire’ (whereby EU legislation on matters including the EU regionalisation objective cannot legally be overturned by any UK government – now or in the future). Anyone arguing that the boundaries of the Greater London 'county' are set in stone is living in cloud cuckoo land. The Boundary Commission would relish the opportunity to do a bit of 'carving' on it. Extension of GLC boundaries is a non-starter because hostility to London-rule is widespread in the Home Counties. There is only one other way to go for the GLA/GLC - downwards. Reduction in size to the boundaries of the now defunct London County Council (or something slightly larger than the old LCC).

24-07-2005, 08:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
Britannist Uber Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: London Posts: 22,896	Thanks Thanks Bellatrix for your support for the County of Middlesex.

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24-06-2005, 06:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
John-C Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Wales. Posts: 113	I think any of the first three options would be an inprovement on the status quo. I also accept that there are many for whom the idea of the old L.C.C. area is better, and more likely to happen, than the full restoration of the entirity of Middlesex as an administrative unit.

27-06-2005, 02:18 PM	#3 (permalink)
John-C Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Wales. Posts: 113	In the "Traditional Counties" thread, Britannist wrote that the people of Middlesex want a return to the County of Middlesex. This is entirely right, as is most or all of what he or she has said on this in this thread. A few years ago, there was an organization called the Friends of the County of Middlesex. It was a very popular and sucessful campaign to raise awareness, and got some "Welcome to the County of Middlesex" road signs erected and a few other such things. The other counties would, as he/she says, welcome their territory back from the obscene entity that is "Greater London". London could, in some suggestions for re-organization, have it's own County, i.e. the old L.C.C. (which is about the London Post Code area), or some slightly different area, as in the poll options above. Paul Brich wrote (in the "Traditional Counties" thread) that most people in Middlesex don't even know they're there. This is wrong. It is also incorrect to say or imply that Middlesex hasn't been on postal addresses for years and that the towns are given London addresses and postcodes. This is not true, other than for the areas more near to London, i.e. those within the London postcode area, which roughly corresponds with the old L.C.C. Paul is wrong to imply that people in Middlesex don't have any County loyalty or knowledge of their area. He may have lived in Middlesex but so did I, and my experience is markedly different to his. I'm not saying everyone thought like I do and not like him, but he can't say it is the other way round. What's so Libertarian about allowing a monstrous entity such as "Greater London" to swallow up most of the County of Middlesex, thereby depriving people of their link to their history, just the sort of thing George Orwell vigorously opposed and warned against. I do suggest that the old L.C.C. area could form a modern London area council, to compromise with those who oppose full Middlesex independence as unrealistic. However, the current situation is highly offensive, and must go. I have put a copy of this onto the Middlesex County Council thread, as that seems to be the best place for a strictly Middlesex based discussion. l

28-06-2005, 09:11 AM	#4 (permalink)
John-C Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Wales. Posts: 113	Paul Birch wrote, in the "Traditional Counties" thread, that "Greater London" was no more offensive than Great Britain. This is not a proper analagy, as Great Britain recognizes the existence of the seperate countries which make it up. How would you like it, Paul, if Portsmouth or Southampton had expanded greatly and the Isle of Wight were to become part of Greater Portsmouth or Greater Southampton?, or if Hampshire were to be entirely swallowed up INTO phpbb_such a creation?. Greater London is a measureless monstrosity, denying and subjugating the individual identities of towns and areas subsumed INTO phpbb_it. Middlesex must be allowed to be recognized properly, in answer to your question, Paul, about why the M.C.C., in some form, must return.

20-07-2005, 12:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
John-C Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Wales. Posts: 113	Britannist, you have written elsewhere on this Forum that you are involved with something else (other than this Forum or U.K.I.P. which relates to what I gather must be a campaign for greater recognition of Middlesex as a County. Could you let us know what this is, by any chance. I am interested to know. The Friends of the County of Middlesex was a good group, but I think they do not exist now, or are no-longer active. I can't find out anything about the County of Middlesex Trust. I have had no reply to a message sent to the ABC Counties group about currently active campaign(s) concerning Middlesex. Could you give details regarding this, if you are involved in, or know of, such a campaign? (ditto if anyone else knows of any such campaign. Middlesex, like the Inch, needs support!.

24-07-2005, 07:18 PM	#7 (permalink)
Bellatrix Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 623	I live in Middx. and I am represented (badly) by Surrey County Council. Would rather not be organised by a load of liberal do-gooders obsessed with Road Humps and support a return to MCC.

26-07-2005, 02:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
John-C Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Wales. Posts: 113	Thank-you very much, Britannist, for your excellent reply on this topic, and also thanks for support from Bellatrix too. I think, on the point about "London" Boroughs being free to drop the "London" (and perhaps insert "Middlesex" in it's place in relevant cases, or other variant titles acknowledging the County), that the Royal Borough of Kingston Upon Thames and, in London, the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, would tend to show that alternate names might actually be possible even while the current so-called "London" Boroughs exist at their current boundaries. If it is possible for a "London" Borough to actually be called a Royal Borough (with no reference to "London" in it's title), may give rise to some hope that we could see, for instance, the "Middlesex Borough of Hillingdon", or the "Borough of Richmond Upon Thames", or other such titles dropping "London", where the Borough is either entirely or largely outside of London (as defined by either the old L.C.C., or London Postcode area, or other boundary which takes account of the County of Middlesex. My aim, and I'm sure yours too, Britannist, is the re-drafting of such "London" Boroughs, to make boroughs consistent with the Counties, (as opposed to amalgamations between Surrey, Middlesex, and the old L.C.C. or London Postcode area, as in Richmond Upon Thames). However, as a first step in the right direction, the simple and hopefully relatively easily-achievable re-naming of the relevant Boroughs would be a serious advance when compared to the current situation. A pro-Middlesex group is very much needed. I agree that it would do best to concentrate on either the pre-1965 Middlesex boundaries, with the L.C.C. / the London postcode area, or some other slightly different area. I think a non-political group stands the best chance, like the B.W.M.A., steadfastly non-political and attracting support from genuinely right across the political spectrum. I know that the astrologer Russell Grant was either the main force, or one of the main forces, behind the Friends of the County of Middlesex (which I believe he set up), and was also in the County of Middlesex Trust. I would think that if you could find a way of contacting him, he would probably know whether any current groups exist, and/or may be able or willing to get involved in such a group again. His help ensured a lot of good publicity and some successes in the Friends in the past. It is indeed heartening to hear of support for better recognition for the County of Middlesex.