Traditional British Counties.

John-C · 24-06-2005, 02:07 PM

Fully recognize the continued existence of All traditional counties of Britain. We should support either full return to all the original Counties having County councils as admimnistrative regions of Britain, OR abolish all county councils and have only district or borough councils. (Accepting the existence of exceptional deviations from this, such as the traditional Ridings of Yorkshire, too). I am not an expert, but think the pre-1965 County boundaries may be a good option, but do apologize and retract herewith if there were any real counties abolished before that year!.

I favour the former, but would see at least some advantages of the latter too, when compared with what we presently have. We currently have councils that purport to be "counties" some of which are referred to as county boroughs, and this causes great confusion, with people referring to their address as being in some made up place that doesn't really exist (eg. Torfaen) or some place that is actually two places (eg. Hereford and Worcester, Neath and Port Talbot, etc), or, perhaps worse still, some ghastly sucking up of all surrounding areas INTO phpbb_a grotesque entity such as "Greater London", "Greater Manchester", etc.).

It's a farce and an insult to the real regional identities many people feel, ie. County identity.

We should, through our Party's elected representatives, campaign in an active way to raise awareness of and the issue of the true Counties of England, Scotland, and Wales. In areas where we have representatives on illegitimate "county" area counties, we should campaign for the return of the real county.

Scrap the cr*p, give us our County back!.

Go to http://www.abcounties.co.uk/

Alex McKee · 24-06-2005, 02:24 PM

I think some other option, we need to do something, clearly, but the world has moved on and beleive it or not there are people who identify with the
"made-up" counties, (Avon for example).

This is something of an interest to me, I have long considered S. Glos as part of Glos. and there are many who feel the same who live in S. Glos.

I think we need to set about restoring the county system, the only reason it hasn't been done before is because the government means to completely do away with them in favour of Regions and Districts. (For example: the DWP has an administrative "district" of Gloucestershire, Swindon and Wiltshire which means that when I apply to a job in DWP I have to apply to an office in Chippenham even if I only want to work in Gloucester or Cheltenham.)

Paul Birch · 24-06-2005, 03:54 PM

I agree generally with restoring the old counties, with some caveats. It makes sense for large cities to be distinct administrative areas in their own right - in effect, to make Greater London, Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and Glasgow INTO phpbb_new counties, typically with boundaries up to their encircling motorways.

Alex McKee · 24-06-2005, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Birch

I agree generally with restoring the old counties, with some caveats. It makes sense for large cities to be distinct administrative areas in their own right - in effect, to make Greater London, Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and Glasgow INTO phpbb_new counties, typically with boundaries up to their encircling motorways.

Yeah that's my view.

John-C · 24-06-2005, 07:29 PM

The North Circular and South Circular Roads around London might have some merit, roughly the area of the old London County Council I suppose. However, if you mean the M25 Motorway, around London amnd surrounds, that would make it even worse than the current "Greater London" area, swallowing up even more areas INTO phpbb_that thing. Surely that's not what you'd want, is it?.

Paul Birch · 24-06-2005, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John-C

... if you mean the M25 Motorway, around London amnd surrounds, that would make it even worse than the current "Greater London" area, swallowing up even more areas INTO phpbb_that thing. Surely that's not what you'd want, is it?.

Yes, I think that would be the most logical boundary, with the possible exception of leaving Watford outside. It seems daft having different parts of the same city under different municipal authorities.

UKIP MAN · 24-06-2005, 08:44 PM

Im in Romford not In London, I dissagree. There is to much interferrence from the london assemble in local affairs in this area, and then in some areas they dont give a fig and nothing is done. more local accountability.

John-C · 24-06-2005, 09:36 PM

Paul Birch said:-

"different parts of the same city"....

In my view they are NOT different parts of the same city. Twickemham, Uxbridge, etc. are towns in Middlesex, with their own identity. They are not, and never will be "part of London".

nyorks-patriot · 24-06-2005, 10:58 PM

We should restore all the traditional Countys and Boroughs.

We should have 4 tiers of government.

British Parliament.
English Parliament.
County.
City/Borough/District.

5 tiers if you count town and parish councils under that.

arden forester · 24-06-2005, 11:24 PM

It was the Great Grocer (Heath) that did away with the historical counties, with the Local Government Act 1972. And him a Kentish Man, or Man of Kent. :shock:

I live in Warwickshire, but for the bureaucrats it is Solihull MBC, a unitary council. We used to be West Midlands County but that just fell apart. However, the BBC, ITV, and other august institutions insist on using the term. Warwickshire CC is at Edgbaston in Birmingham. Cricket does help to keep county loyalties going.

We also suffer from the B post code. If one lives in the outer limits of this, the Post Office insists Birmingham is put on the address even if it is in, for example, deepest Worcestershire.

The counties don't need to be the same size. American states are not. But the counties have all manner of loyalties going with them. It makes sense to use them to enhance local government, not to distance it from the people. We know regions are not for us. Anyway, no-one agrees which region they are in. ITV regions are not the same as the Government's. The railways have their own. Is Oxford in the South-East or South Midlands? Answers on a post card, please. 8)

View Poll Results: Which should we do?.
Re-instate all (at least pre-1965) British Counties, as fully functioning administrative units.	18	64.29%
Abolish all administrative units that purport to be counties, whether real Counties or otherwise.	0	0%
Abolish all administrative units that purport to be counties, but do not correspond to any traditional County or other traditional entity.	1	3.57%
Leave the status quo as it is.	5	17.86%
Some other option.	4	14.29%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

24-06-2005, 02:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
John-C Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Wales. Posts: 113	Traditional British Counties. Fully recognize the continued existence of All traditional counties of Britain. We should support either full return to all the original Counties having County councils as admimnistrative regions of Britain, OR abolish all county councils and have only district or borough councils. (Accepting the existence of exceptional deviations from this, such as the traditional Ridings of Yorkshire, too). I am not an expert, but think the pre-1965 County boundaries may be a good option, but do apologize and retract herewith if there were any real counties abolished before that year!. I favour the former, but would see at least some advantages of the latter too, when compared with what we presently have. We currently have councils that purport to be "counties" some of which are referred to as county boroughs, and this causes great confusion, with people referring to their address as being in some made up place that doesn't really exist (eg. Torfaen) or some place that is actually two places (eg. Hereford and Worcester, Neath and Port Talbot, etc), or, perhaps worse still, some ghastly sucking up of all surrounding areas INTO phpbb_a grotesque entity such as "Greater London", "Greater Manchester", etc.). It's a farce and an insult to the real regional identities many people feel, ie. County identity. We should, through our Party's elected representatives, campaign in an active way to raise awareness of and the issue of the true Counties of England, Scotland, and Wales. In areas where we have representatives on illegitimate "county" area counties, we should campaign for the return of the real county. Scrap the cr*p, give us our County back!. Go to http://www.abcounties.co.uk/

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24-06-2005, 02:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,666	I think some other option, we need to do something, clearly, but the world has moved on and beleive it or not there are people who identify with the "made-up" counties, (Avon for example). This is something of an interest to me, I have long considered S. Glos as part of Glos. and there are many who feel the same who live in S. Glos. I think we need to set about restoring the county system, the only reason it hasn't been done before is because the government means to completely do away with them in favour of Regions and Districts. (For example: the DWP has an administrative "district" of Gloucestershire, Swindon and Wiltshire which means that when I apply to a job in DWP I have to apply to an office in Chippenham even if I only want to work in Gloucester or Cheltenham.)

24-06-2005, 03:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
Paul Birch Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cowes Posts: 1,272	I agree generally with restoring the old counties, with some caveats. It makes sense for large cities to be distinct administrative areas in their own right - in effect, to make Greater London, Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and Glasgow INTO phpbb_new counties, typically with boundaries up to their encircling motorways.

24-06-2005, 07:29 PM	#5 (permalink)
John-C Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Wales. Posts: 113	The North Circular and South Circular Roads around London might have some merit, roughly the area of the old London County Council I suppose. However, if you mean the M25 Motorway, around London amnd surrounds, that would make it even worse than the current "Greater London" area, swallowing up even more areas INTO phpbb_that thing. Surely that's not what you'd want, is it?.

24-06-2005, 08:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
UKIP MAN Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,898	Im in Romford not In London, I dissagree. There is to much interferrence from the london assemble in local affairs in this area, and then in some areas they dont give a fig and nothing is done. more local accountability.

24-06-2005, 09:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
John-C Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Wales. Posts: 113	Paul Birch said:- "different parts of the same city".... In my view they are NOT different parts of the same city. Twickemham, Uxbridge, etc. are towns in Middlesex, with their own identity. They are not, and never will be "part of London".

24-06-2005, 10:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
nyorks-patriot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 653	We should restore all the traditional Countys and Boroughs. We should have 4 tiers of government. British Parliament. English Parliament. County. City/Borough/District. 5 tiers if you count town and parish councils under that.

24-06-2005, 11:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
arden forester Uber Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Solihull, in The Forest of Arden, Warwickshire! Posts: 2,662 Party: None	It was the Great Grocer (Heath) that did away with the historical counties, with the Local Government Act 1972. And him a Kentish Man, or Man of Kent. :shock: I live in Warwickshire, but for the bureaucrats it is Solihull MBC, a unitary council. We used to be West Midlands County but that just fell apart. However, the BBC, ITV, and other august institutions insist on using the term. Warwickshire CC is at Edgbaston in Birmingham. Cricket does help to keep county loyalties going. We also suffer from the B post code. If one lives in the outer limits of this, the Post Office insists Birmingham is put on the address even if it is in, for example, deepest Worcestershire. The counties don't need to be the same size. American states are not. But the counties have all manner of loyalties going with them. It makes sense to use them to enhance local government, not to distance it from the people. We know regions are not for us. Anyway, no-one agrees which region they are in. ITV regions are not the same as the Government's. The railways have their own. Is Oxford in the South-East or South Midlands? Answers on a post card, please. 8)