Nationalisation Of Life's Essentials

B.A.Ware · 22-06-2005, 01:11 AM

Ah Mr Pareto I will apply this system to everything, the free market will prevail when I make love I will apply Pareto when I am married I will apply Pareto when my loved ones die I will apply pareto. Now the whole point of that statement is yes the free market can exist but where emotions come to the fore profit goes out of the window. But if we all listen to Mr Pareto the sick and dying are not cost effective, if the poor cannot afford electric or water that’s not Mr Pareto’s fault we must at all costs make a profit. That is why we can charge sick people for parking at the hospital or watching TV while they are there but that’s the good thing about free markets I can get rich on the back’s of the sick. Thank god for the free market. Paul

Paul Birch · 22-06-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.A.Ware

Ah Mr Pareto I will apply this system to everything, the free market will prevail when I make love I will apply Pareto when I am married I will apply Pareto when my loved ones die I will apply pareto.

Yes. Pareto optimisation is what everyone does, like the chap who was speaking prose but didn't know it. It simply means that everyone tries to make the best use he can, of whatever he has, to obtain the results he thinks best. In a free market those uses are limited to ones that violate no rights. From those two simple rules the whole mathematical complexity of economics develops.

A crucial feature is that in no Pareto compliant transaction is any party made worse off in his own estimation. If it were otherwise the transaction would not take place in a free market. By contrast, political impositions almost invariably make at least one set of people worse off, and usually end up making almost everyone worse off. So let's have less of those ignorant and vicious marxist sneers.

Quote:

Now the whole point of that statement is yes the free market can exist but where emotions come to the fore profit goes out of the window.

No. Profit and emotions are at core the same thing. Profiting means the obtaining of greater emotional satisfactions. Money is merely one of the economic tools by which we profit.

kernow · 22-06-2005, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Birch

Obviously you haven't bothered to read your own thread, in which I argued rationally and at considerable length for a free market in food production - an opinion you solicited then completely ignored. You're doing the same thing now - ignoring inconvenient evidence and any analyses that challenge your position - wriggling and squirming to avoid having to give any real answers. If you don't want a substantive debate, please don't start threads that seem to call for one.

I rarely start threads, but when I do it is usualy about a subject which I think other people may be interested in debating and by the amount of replies to threads I have started, people are interested. I thought the whole idea of this forum was for people to debate, not throw personel insults at people who are too far away to punch you on the nose.

mkpdavies · 22-06-2005, 11:45 AM

Is Mr Pareto a Ferrengi?

I'd wager 30 sheets of gold pressed latinum he is!

Paul Birch · 22-06-2005, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Birch

Obviously you haven't bothered to read your own thread, in which I argued rationally and at considerable length for a free market in food production - an opinion you solicited then completely ignored. You're doing the same thing now - ignoring inconvenient evidence and any analyses that challenge your position - wriggling and squirming to avoid having to give any real answers. If you don't want a substantive debate, please don't start threads that seem to call for one.

I rarely start threads, but when I do it is usualy about a subject which I think other people may be interested in debating and by the amount of replies to threads I have started, people are interested. I thought the whole idea of this forum was for people to debate, not throw personel insults at people who are too far away to punch you on the nose.

So debate! Debating doesn't mean merely repeating your opinions or feelings; it means answering the questions - and accepting, querying or rationally arguing against the points - that other people bring up challenging those opinions. You haven't done this. You are still ducking out of answering my substantive counter-arguments or facing up to the empirical evidence I presented against your position.

Paul Birch · 22-06-2005, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Is Mr Pareto a Ferrengi?
I'd wager 30 sheets of gold pressed latinum he is!

No. The Ferengis have nothing like a free market. They are medieval mercantilists - not unlike the EU. Their rules of acquisition seem mostly a compilation of obsolete pre-economic fallacies - the sort that look at trade as if it were a zero-sum game, with winners and losers. This is in stark opposition to the economic view, in which Pareto-compliant transactions are fundamentally positive sum and every player is a winner (though some are more successful than others).

John Carter · 22-06-2005, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Is Mr Pareto a Ferrengi?

I'd wager 30 sheets of gold pressed latinum he is!

#65: Win or lose, there's always Huyperian beetle snuff.

mkpdavies · 22-06-2005, 12:30 PM

Oh. The latinums in the post then.

John Carter · 22-06-2005, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Oh. The latinums in the post then.

Not so fast! Paul obviously hasn't been reading his rules...

#284: Deep down, everyone's a Ferengi.

(that'll be 10 slips, thanks)

B.A.Ware · 22-06-2005, 07:34 PM

mkpdavies Wrote

Quote:

Is Mr Pareto a Ferrengi?

Excellent posting Matt, spent a good few minutes chuckling at that one.

Paul Birch Wrote

Quote:

No. Profit and emotions are at core the same thing. Profiting means the obtaining of greater emotional satisfactions. Money is merely one of the economic tools by which we profit.

Emotions are feelings like hate and love sorrow and happiness, so please tell me how you profit from sorrow or hate.

Mr Pareto a Ferrengi?

22-06-2005, 12:30 PM	#28 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,102 Party: Libertarian Party	Oh. The latinums in the post then. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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22-06-2005, 01:11 AM	#21 (permalink)
B.A.Ware Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 4,629 Party: UKIP	Ah Mr Pareto I will apply this system to everything, the free market will prevail when I make love I will apply Pareto when I am married I will apply Pareto when my loved ones die I will apply pareto. Now the whole point of that statement is yes the free market can exist but where emotions come to the fore profit goes out of the window. But if we all listen to Mr Pareto the sick and dying are not cost effective, if the poor cannot afford electric or water that’s not Mr Pareto’s fault we must at all costs make a profit. That is why we can charge sick people for parking at the hospital or watching TV while they are there but that’s the good thing about free markets I can get rich on the back’s of the sick. Thank god for the free market. Paul

22-06-2005, 11:45 AM	#24 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,102 Party: Libertarian Party	Is Mr Pareto a Ferrengi? I'd wager 30 sheets of gold pressed latinum he is!