Party or Pressure Group

mkpdavies · 08-06-2005, 09:31 PM

54 pages of flannel to try and cover the real issue that matters to 99% of BNP members. Race and immigration. You can guarantee issues will return to these subjects every time you talk to BNP members about anything.

UKIP sure do have their problem of looking like a single issue party, I'm not arguing against that and it's something a lot of us are trying to address. It'll be tough, as a lot of us do think the EU is the most important issue that effects all others. I think it will be hard to convince people otherwise, but actions will have to speak louder than words.

Quote:

Hey! C'mon, it is good for UKIP to learn about these things

Most of us already have learned it. It'll take time and work to fix it!

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You need policies is what I am saying. The BNP has them, you don't

UKIP have plenty of policies, but need to flesh them out more and add to them. The BNP, this election, put out a load of stuff, but they are still deficient in many areas. I actually agree with a lot of stuff, but then the BNP are still a racist nasty bunch of scum in general, which ruins it for me. Just my opinion, and thankfully the opinion of a lot of others, otherwise you would have won some seats.

UKIP has a problem that people think they are single issue and some think they might be like the BNP scum. A tough issue we have to fix.

The BNP problem is people know they are scum. That's going to be impossible to fix, IMHO.

mkpdavies · 08-06-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyorks-patriot

Well if the BNP are a joke what does that make us?
Because they give us a fair troucing in the election.
However that possition could be changed quite quickly if we said openly we are a Ring Wing Patriotic Conservative Political Party.
Then embraced polcies which would make us so.
The Liberals at the higher levels of the party are starting make me sick its the same rot that set in at the Tory party.
People so out of touch with reality.

This is another thing I hate about the BNP. The amount of time their members try to pretend they are something they are not. How many times have we seen it just on this forum? Lack of honesty is never a good thing.

mkpdavies · 08-06-2005, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMUK64

The BNP went from 6th place to 4th in the GE. Keep ingnoring reality though, it was what the respectable Parties do and why Britain is in such a mess.

Christina

That's just delusion. You only ran in the seats you thought you had a good chance in. That's Like saying Galloway's Respect came in 1st, because of his one win!

nyorks-patriot · 08-06-2005, 09:49 PM

cmuk you should ignore some of the Liberal weirdo's we get trying to represent UKIP on here.
At a grass roots level we are a very Patriotic bunch.
Mostly ex-Conservatives.

mkpdavies · 08-06-2005, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyorks-patriot

cmuk you should ignore some of the Liberal weirdo's we get trying to represent UKIP on here.
At a grass roots level we are a very Patriotic bunch.
Mostly ex-Conservatives.

Ex-conservative, current BNP.

(in this one case anyway)

nyorks-patriot · 08-06-2005, 09:53 PM

Whats your political back ground mkdavies?
Spent your youth the Young Liberals i bet.

mkpdavies · 08-06-2005, 09:57 PM

Libertarian.

Didn't show enough interest when I was younger, so followed my parents voting Labour.

Do shown interest now and now my parents, and a good section of friends vote UKIP, helping me feel better about my youthful mistake.

You are authoratarian/racist, thus the BNP is more than welcome to you.

Jean Pool · 08-06-2005, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMUK64

The BNP went from 6th place to 4th in the GE. Keep ingnoring reality though, it was what the respectable Parties do and why Britain is in such a mess.

Christina

That's just delusion. You only ran in the seats you thought you had a good chance in. That's Like saying Galloway's Respect came in 1st, because of his one win!

Matt - I've read your above posts. May I suggest a couple of things?

One, you really as a party must try and engage more with the full spectrum that is the general public - not just certain sectors already established as a toe-hold. Well - established enough to give you a disastrous election result after twelve years in the making. I won't rub in the results.

Two - don't put a ceiling on what The BNP may achieve electorally. That is silly. Why is it that most people I canvass seem to find BNP policy on crime, immigration, green issues and EU far more appealing than any other mainstream party? I accept, this is just my personal findings but I feel this would be replicated elsewhere.

UKIP will never hold any sway as a multi-issue party. I see you as a man of reason. Reality bites, Matt. Grasp the "pressure-group" status that you are, and always will be.

mkpdavies · 08-06-2005, 10:08 PM

Quote:

One, you really as a party must try and engage more with the full spectrum that is the general public - not just certain sectors already established as a toe-hold. Well - established enough to give you a disastrous election result after twelve years in the making. I won't rub in the results.

Already agreed.

Quote:

Two - don't put a ceiling on what The BNP may achieve electorally. That is silly. Why is it that most people I canvass seem to find BNP policy on crime, immigration, green issues and EU far more appealing than any other mainstream party? I accept, this is just my personal findings but I feel this would be replicated elsewhere.

I agree a lot of them do, but most will never vote BNP as they are seen as scum. Rightly or wrongly, you know my opinion on that.

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UKIP will never hold any sway as a multi-issue party. I see you as a man of reason. Reality bites, Matt. Grasp the "pressure-group" status that you are, and always will be.

The minority within the party want to be a pressure group, the majority will win out. Whether or not the public can be convinced of that, is another question. I'm not giving up trying until I see a better alternative. The BNP will never be that.

08-06-2005, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Lack of honesty is never a good thing.

I find dismissal as being dishonest and a sign that one cannot answer the argument.

I joined the BNP in May. I used to think they were racist scum too. As a member of Veritas, I was dedicated to truthful politics and checking out things for myself, that's why I checked out the BNP for myself, rather than just dissing them as lots of people do.

If you think I am dishonest, that is your opinion.

I think lots of people would recognise that a person who outs themselves as a transsexual woman, on a forum that is not dedicated to her Party, and which shows hostility to said Part, is anything but dishonest.

Christina

View Poll Results: Should Ukip become a Pressure group or a fully fledged Political Party
Pressure group	2	20.00%
Political Party	8	80.00%
Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

08-06-2005, 09:57 PM	#17 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,102 Party: Libertarian Party	Libertarian. Didn't show enough interest when I was younger, so followed my parents voting Labour. Do shown interest now and now my parents, and a good section of friends vote UKIP, helping me feel better about my youthful mistake. You are authoratarian/racist, thus the BNP is more than welcome to you. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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08-06-2005, 09:49 PM	#14 (permalink)
nyorks-patriot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 653	cmuk you should ignore some of the Liberal weirdo's we get trying to represent UKIP on here. At a grass roots level we are a very Patriotic bunch. Mostly ex-Conservatives.

08-06-2005, 09:53 PM	#16 (permalink)
nyorks-patriot Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 653	Whats your political back ground mkdavies? Spent your youth the Young Liberals i bet.