Biscuitman

Well done to all who were able to turn out, certainly was big fun. What I didn’t tell you on Friday, so not to alarm you, was that I am being stalked and I’m afraid it’s become so serious that I’m going to have to call the police in.

My wife has long since given up going out with me to social events as there’s always this drunk turns up and annoys her. I’ve never seen him myself mind. On Friday night he must have sneaked INTO phpbb_my room and hid my trousers on top of the wardrobe despite Enid, aged 82, spending the night hidden in the bushes outside keeping a watch. It was good of you to keep her company B.A.

Anyway, down to serious matters – I had intended to make it to the hotel for noon but made the mistake of calling INTO phpbb_the office to check my post. As a consequence I didn’t arrive until after one. My heart was gladdened as I walked through the car park and spotted the UKIPMAN’S van in all its glory!!

Didn’t start drinking until 1.15 and finished my last drink at 1.20 – unfortunately there were twelve hours in between. I was doing fine following my usual plan of drinking an even number of pints – I’m taking part in a research project on this – apparently you can’t get drunk if you follow this rule. But drink an odd number of pints and you’re done for.

All was going well enough until I lost count – had to resort to the emergency procedure and switch to red wine. I didn’t want to have to keep getting up and down to replenish my glass so I hit on the brilliant idea of ordering two glasses served in a pint glass.

Unfortunately the bar maid – the larger one of the two, being the one UKIPMAN fell in love with – being east European seemed to misunderstand me and served me a pint of wine, (perhaps it’s the custom in her country), not wanting to embarrass her I accepted the drink.

If I remember right people kept topping my glass up for me, which was jolly unfair of them.

Anyway sometime later the hotel staff started making noises suggesting we went to bed I was about to point out that we weren’t finished drinking but realised it was well after 1.00am so it seemed a good idea.

Woken by my alarm at 8 o’clock to find myself in a strange room – first thoughts were that my wife had been decorating again. After a couple of minutes I remembered where I was and was quite surprised that I didn’t have a hang over – as I got out of bed I realised why, I was still drunk.

Many coffees and a hearty full English later I felt much better and after brief goodbyes shot off down to Woking for the S/E post mortem where I was a bit disappointed to find that several of our best ideas had been nicked – somebody obviously bugged our meeting at Lechlade, (my stalker no doubt).

As others have commented, it was good to put faces to names and you would have thought we would have got bored long before we finished but it was all good fun.

We promised not to tell tales and even though BA has spilled the beans I am not going to mention him pole dancing and I’m sure that it was a good idea at the time when we egged UKIPMAN on to black his face with boot polish when he was doing his Paul Robeson impression in the karaoke session – it did alarm some of the other guests at breakfast though,) I’m sure it’ll fade sooner rather than later.

Linda won the “Hunt The Bourbon” competition but we think she was peeping from under the blindfold. We had to abandon the “Pin the tail” competition when somebody ate the ginger nut we were using.

Thanks to Roger for trying to console Enid. There was an unfortunate episode when she was accused of molesting a group of young oarsmen in the beer garden. Things turned quite nasty when she discovered they were coxless fours.

The only other bother we had was over dinner when Mike seized another guest in a headlock smothered his head with mayonnaise shaved him with a fish knife. That’s the last time the Bishop of Bath and Wells goes out for a quiet drink.

I vaguely remember Anthony having a bit of banter with one of the serving wenches, which started when he asked her if the eggs on the menu were free range. They may drink pints of red wine in her country but the concept of free range seemed alien to her. She returned a bit later with an explanation from the Chef himself that I can’t remember precisely but went along the lines of “the chickens she are happy and then lay the eggs”.

This may well have been a coded message for Anthony or my stalker… hmmmm.. Enid! Fetch my violin and my opium I must think about this…

The venue itself was good, nice bar with a couple of real ales amongst the selection, clean basic room and decent food.

I think UKIPMAN has the photies on his phone.

As for our deliberations I tried to keep notes and think I’ve got most of it – except when we were in the dining room – but anyone else who was there do add your own bits if you have different thoughts: -

We started off with “What went wrong last time” and had 2 minutes or so each, the idea being to get them out of the way and then build for next time.

The list includes :-

HQ set up; Website structure poor and not kept fresh; National Image; we are supposed to want to empower the electorate and this was missing from our message completely; didn’t have national spokesmen;

should have had somebody as a central contact for ‘key’ questions and information – questions e-mailed went unanswered; the National brand again came up and expanded upon – not credible – too right wing;

blaming the media is wrong, we didn’t supply enough information to our candidates; leaflets weren’t right – cartoon was okay if their had been an explanation on the back; election address negative – as no ‘proper’ explanation of our policy on immigration it ‘smelt’ of racism;

candidates were asked to highlight any area of expertise on their original applications yet this expertise was never drawn upon; whilst grateful to all that David Lott did we would have preferred to have somebody else run the campaign, who wouldn’t be going on holiday for six weeks – with David guiding them;

our manifesto wasn’t detailed enough, wasn’t credible and in any case was too late; others elsewhere have criticised the party for not getting the EU on the agenda but it was pointed out that it was only 9th in the electorates list of priorities in any case;

the media shouldn’t be expected to listen to us; the EU was the wrong message; Somebody pointed out that they offered to leaflet in December only to be told by their branch that “We only leaflet at election time”!; enquiries from prospective members weren’t passed on quickly enough – should be immediately by e-mail;

We are not being run as a business; and finally somebody expressed the view that they hoped they were wrong, but feared that the candidates had been canon fodder, we fielded so many to secure a PPB and help us gain bonus media exposure based on our June successes and the No of candidates.

This was to benefit the ‘chosen’ 21 and perhaps generate by leafleting new members and enquiries; that their had never been any intention to support the other candidates.

Next we moved on to “What went right”? As you expect a shorter list but we did limit the time to about a minute each.

The cartoons were a good thing… but should have been smaller and as said earlier an explanation – Roger made an extremely cognitive statement, which goes to show that he wasn’t doing his share of the drinking and placed a heavy burden on the rest of us – that when Tom & Jerry cartoons started they were cuddly round shapes; when they changed in the late 60s I think – and were revamped INTO phpbb_sharp angular shapes they went rapidly down hill; the point being that our cartoons were too angular and harsh – perhaps they were intended to be?

We thought the broadcast was good.

We thought that the number of candidates we managed to field was good- on the members part.

The manifesto was a third of the way there – the original figure postulated was 50% but Anthony gave a discount for cash.

We had a lot of support from people who didn’t vote for us – the votes are there to be had if we can deliver the right message.

We increased our exposure –got more than we actually deserved.

We gained experience.

For some reason we then had a lengthy discussion on the parties Immigartion policy and where our message went wrong.

People don’t want to appear to be ‘nasty’ so our negative was wrong but it’s a hard subject to be positive about.

Somebody brought up the phrase “respected immigrant”, could whoever it was enlarge on this as I didn’t quite grasp the reason and think I made one of several trips to the toilet at the time;

The electorate don’t understand what we mean by “Zero net immigration”

We explored the use of a replacing “immigration” with a word with a less negative connotation - we rejected “population control” as it was probably more negative and eventually settled on “population stability” – stability comes from control – control comes from our own borders – our own borders come from EU-exit.

We discussed PC correctness in particular non-pc pigs, (no pun intended), being thought by the PC brigade of causing offence to Muslims – examples were given and somebody pointed out that people of the Jewish faith hold the same views as Muslims on pork and yet no reference is ever made – now or in the last three hundred years to Jews possibly being offended.

We also felt that there should be a programme of assimilation to help legal newcomers adjust as this would benefit them and the community as a whole – immigrants are accused of being cliquish and keeping to their own but this is in part the ‘fear’ of ‘joining in’ especially if their English was poor.

This would give us a positive secondary ‘immigration’ policy

We actually discussed quite a few other subjects, some of which are current topics on the forum, in conversation but I didn’t make notes on them.

If anyone remembers can you add to this section – and if you can remember then would you mind presenting yourself to the whips office and explain why it is you can remember. Anthony is excused from any disciplinary action as he doesn’t drink alcohol – (Shame I know but every family has one) – and on another occasion we may need a designated driver!

I think it was me that then posed the question – “Do we want to become a broad based party?” Bearing in mind that this will take a LOT of manpower hours and effort; or do we want to remain a one issue party, (that is how the public see us regardless of what we think), and cut our cloth accordingly.

Fortunately, everybody present went for the broadbase option although I think UKIPMAN may well have thought we where voting about the waitress’s bottom.

Having established where we were going we then discussed, “The Way Forward.”

Because the content of this next subject is to form the basis of the Treaty of Lechlade I said I would distribute the details to those present first for them to agree on and then I’ll add it to here.

I’ll be emailing the group on Sunday and hopefully we can then release details Sunday night/Monday am. – nothing spectacular its just I said that’s what I’d do.

Don’t go away…

__________________
IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

Biscuitman

* We were happy to adopt Denis Brooke’s paper recommending the structure the party should adopt as a framework for the future.

*This means not just tinkering or adapting what we’ve got but clear the board and build from scratch.

*The message that had recurred during the day, mostly from comments by Mike, was that the party should be run as a business… it isn’t at the moment.

*Market research:
We should be asking the public – not members – “Do you know this product, (UKIP), do you like this product?

*We think WE understand the message we are putting out but what is the message that is being received.

*The suggestion was that we draw up a questionnaire only 6 or so questions – perhaps Mike would like to volunteer for the job – first question being, “Have you heard of UKIP?”, I think the others suggested included, “Do you know what they stand for?” and might end with “How did you vote at the last General Election?”
Mike has since produced a questionaire and I'll post details tonight.

*Then as many members of the forum as we can get, ask 10 or 20 members of the public to fill one in… if we can get 20 of us asking 20 members of the public – should only take an hour or so – better still if we can involve some others from our branches – 1,000 completed questionnaires would be good.

*I think we might be surprised at the result; it might be a good exercise for Mark Croucher to conduct amongst the media as well – see how they perceive us?

*Somebody suggested we have a GREC, Grass Roots Executive Committee – can somebody else enlarge on this as although I’ve written it down I don’t remember doing so and I may have left the table when it was being discussed.

*NEC needs to have clearly defined authority

*NEC should act as the board of directors – finance should be in a separate ‘department’ – there should be a group around the NEC to help run the party which includes specialists in different aspects of running a ‘business’.


*Then a shadow cabinet beneath them – I say beneath but wouldn’t they be part of the ‘specialists’ say ‘the marketing department’?

*MEPS to be excleded from the NEC, except they have one member to represent their view, the MEPS can appoint that member – no need for them to be elected by the membership as a whole.

*We need younger people on the NEC – this is not a criticism of the current incumbents but with a view for going on from here… we need a blend to keep the experience that comes with age but with a dash of exuberance – also to broaden the appeal of the party’s image.

*We have four years, possibly, to change the party. We need a leader installed asap who can accomplish the rebuild task, their term of office should be 2 years, at that point we need a leader with a different set of skills to start the election campaign.

*It may well be that we can find one person who fits both jobs – but they should put themselves up for re-election in two years time to ensure that the WHOLE party is behind the election leader. It needs to be made clear from the outset that the ‘organiser’ only has a two-year term this avoids any unpleasantness when the 2 year point is reached.

*(We didn’t consider whether we split the job from the outset – whatever job titles we use – just in case there is a snap election along the way – comments anyone?)

*Shadow cabinet to be formed – everyone and his dog is calling for this but it will take immense effort from the incumbents to keep up to speed on their subject – it was suggested that volunteer research groups be attatched to each cabinet member – one person within the group also acts as group press officer feeding material to Mark croucher who can then concentrate of placing the material.

*Quarterly reports from the shadow cabinet to the membership down to county level who can then incorporate the information INTO phpbb_their newsletters to members.

*Some of us were aware that the NEC released minutes of their meetings, others didn't know of them so the suggestion was to communicate this better, (we appreciate that there are sensitive subjects which cannot be released publicly and this we accept).

*We cannot have a ‘proper’ party without ‘proper’ funds. We have to get the message across to all businesses – not just small concerns, big companies as well.

*The NEC should represent and express the will of the members. We are a true grass roots party after all.

*Somebody asked – may have been me – “If some rush to their heads had seen Blair/Howard & Kennedy invade Iran, the week before the election and so UKIP won all the seats they contested, Would any of us have actually welcomed the thought of a UKIP government – that we were today running the country”

The answer was an EMPHATIC NO!

If we wouldn’t buy the product then why should the public?

Timetable – 8-9 months to the NEC elections – it was felt that we should be supporting at least one member of the forum – but it will take a LOT of time, commitment and probale loss of earnings – for any candidates we put forward as they are going to have to make themselves known to the party nationally beyond the confines of our group.

*We would like to see the Denis Brooke’s paper, with Anthony’s analysis and perhaps Peter Williams critique brought together and circulated to the NEC or at least the Party Chairman.

*It was suggested that we use UKIP councillors to influence the Nec – quite how this would work I don’t know – but as party representatives perhaps they should have some input to the NEC.

*UKIP website should have a list of Councillors available for advice on how we can get more councillors – perhaps it would be better from them if their views were collated and published to branch chairmen.

We didnt all agree on every item, but this was a think tank session on the way forward so ideas were what we wanted not neccessarily agreement.

The general consensus was that we weren't especially unhappy with what had gone before but the party is at a point of metamorphis.

The membership has grown significantly. The profile of the membership has also changed dramatically, fewer 'cranks and gadflys' are coming forward; we are attracting younger and slightly more active members and this needs to continue.

If we are to become a full blown political party not a one issue pressure group - which like it or not is what we are - then we need to restructure from top to bottom and change our own attitudes.

If we try to be broad based with what we have got then we will struggle from one election to the next making progress at a snails pace.

-

That’s about the end of my notes – I’m certain we discussed lots more in this section – anyone else remember?

__________________
IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

B.A.Ware

Biscuitman Wrote
I thought you said go and check out Enid’s Bush :shock:

Biscuitman Wrote
I didn’t have any beans so how could I spill them 8) If I’ve told once I’ve told you a million times it was Spanish dancing not Polish dancing

Biscuitman

UKIP's image with the public.

I mentioned above that we discussed UKIP's image, we know what message we are , (trying), to transmit but what is the message that the public are receiving?

Below you will find a questionaire, what we would like is for as many people as possible who are UKIP members to reproduce the following questions and ask 20 members of the public, (more if you want), not party members, the questions - shouldn't take to long.

(You could even e-mail it out to non-members in your address book ).

You don't need to print a seperate sheet for each questionaire, you could print them off several to a page.

It may help if you write the town where the questions were asked as well.

Ideally we would like a thousand responses so please pass on the questionaire to anyone else you know who can spare an hour.

The results can then be forwarded to, probably me, send a PM if you are taking part and I'll send my address.

Identifying how our current brand is perceived is crucial to developing a new brand image and your help will be greatly appreciated.

I know you want to take part Scotgirl but I wouldn't like to jeopardise you position in the Libs.

NB - I don't know why question 8 has come up as a smiley - its not meant to be.
-----------------------------------------------------------
1) Age group:
18-25; 26-30; 30-35; 35-40; 40-45; 45-50; 50-55; 55-60; 60-65; 65+


2) Sex: M/F


3) Have you heard of UKIP Yes/No
If the answer is no then go to question 11.


4) Can you give me 1 of their policies


5) Is there any 1 UKIP policy that you totally agree on?
If YES what is it and why?
6) Is there any 1 UKIP policy that you totally disagree with?
(If YES; What is it and why?)


7) Do you think that UKIP is a credible Political Party YES/NO
If NO why not?


8) Did you vote in the last election for UKIP? YES/NO
If NOWhat was your main reason for not voting for UKIP?


9)Would you vote for UKIP in the future Yes (why) No (why)


10) If UKIP had been elected INTO phpbb_government at the last election do you think it would have been good for this country?

Yes (why-main reason) No (why-main reason)


11) Which party did you vote for at the last General Election?

Labour ; Conservative; Lib/Dem ; UKIP; Greens; other ; Did not vote.

( what was the main reason for this)



Thankyou for taking part in this survey.

FOR INTERVIEWERS USE: Completed face to face or by e/mail?

__________________
IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

mkpdavies

If at all possible I would try and make sure people you give this too don't know you are a UKIP member. You want totaly honest answers and not friends putting stuff that won't offend you.

__________________
http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/
http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/
http://lpuk.org

My ignore list

Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

B.A.Ware

Should it say UK Independence party I have met people that have never heard of the term ukip. Sorry if this is being picky.

Biscuitman

I was undecided on that, perhaps ask if theyve heard of either?

__________________
IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

kernow

Almost everyone I've met on the street had heard of UKIP, but several did not link it with the UK Independence Party. Almost all of the media refer to us as UKIP.

anyone who has been on this forum a while would know what i would respond to each of the questions so it would hardly be worthwhile

but the idea to have something like this is a good one. as someone once said to me on the veritas forum here you are in a group of people who on this issue all tend to think the same way so the questions need to be asked to a wider audiance

oh and in answer to the name wouldnt that be a good question too find out what the public know the party as UKIP or UK independance party

gareth2

Put down both next to each other, do the questionaire properly (looks wise) and have it as a page on your website to download, one colour one not. Make it a pretty sheet people like so they take it off your hand, not just copied text, joe public dont want that.

This is a "leaflet" given to joe public directly by you. Afterwards they can ask you anything they want about you, its like a win/win canvassing opportunity. Make it pretty, get it to look right, and they will likely ask you questions after. 4 years to go before the next one, its never to early to start. Be sure and tell them about your pension policy if it at all comes up, you can put it in a few sentances and thier eyes wont glaze over, almost every votor cares on some level about pension. 25 quid (or ten, figure that out) on your mums pension sticks in your mind nicely.

regards,
Gareth.