Hudson

Just looking at this bit of the forum it seems there are two separate camps trying to influence policy direction. Just thought it'd be nice to see how much support each has.

Alex McKee

Not really two camps. I had to go for the anti-EU lib Dems (i didn't see the none of the above . . . )

I'm a Socialist though. I agree with the Tories on a lot, with the Lib Dems on quite a bit, with the greens a lot of the time, and UKIP most of the time. Labour almost never.

However I really am very socialist. I used to think I was maybe liberal but nope I did lots of stuff which all say socialist. The core ideals of true socialism hold appeal to me . . .

SO . . I'd suggest that these camps that you speak of really are more diverse and numorous than you might think.

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John-C

I went for the anti-E.U. Lib Dems, out of what was on offer. However, I am also in many respects a Socialist. I agree with other parties, as Alex does, including the Greens, Liberals, U.K.I.P., Tories on various policy areas. I disagree with the Tories on things like their plans for the N.H.S.. I agree with quite a lot that Labour have done, but very strongly disagree with their stance on things like I.D. cards, banning things, and such like.

As a former Green Party member, I still have a considerable amount of their philosophy I share.

Obviously I disagree with parties other than U.K.I.P. (and those who also favour withdrawal, such as the S.L.P.) on the E.U..

Hereward the Wake

We should be similar to anti-EU Lib but without the tax and spend, regulations and some of the loony left wing social policys.

I wouldent mind tax rises for the rich to pay for tax cuts for the poor.

Paul Birch

In other words, not remotely like the LibDems!

Alex McKee

No similar in that we have a generally liberal point of view but not so extreme as the Lib Dems with their imense taxes.

IE:

Example of difference

UKIP:

Small Governement, Supporting but not nannying the people.

Lib Dems:

Large government taking responsibility in many areas of life

Example of similarity

Supporting the abolition of tuition fees, as do the Lib Dems.

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Paul Birch

The "Lib Dems" are not liberal at all. They are the most illiberal, essentially authoritarian and hard left of all the main parties in Britain today. Like the Conservatives, who are no longer remotely conservative, but can get conservative voters to continue voting for them because once upon a time the party was conservative, the LibDems continue to get the votes of liberals, even though the party (or its predecessor) stopped being genuinely liberal a century ago.

ukip kipper

I think that Paul Birch has hit the nail on the head. I would consider myself to be liberal, which is why I oppose the 'Liberal Democrats', who are neither Liberal nor Democrats.

(They're not really Democrats because they're wanting to push us INTO phpbb_a profoundly undemocratic European superstate).

To be fair to them, the Lib Dems certainly retain a liberal perspective on some issues, such as civil liberties.

UKIP policy on ID cards and opposition to the undemocratic Terrorism measures is virtually indistinguishable from Lib Dem policy.

On moral issues, I think UKIP policy is perfect (referenda) because we then don't have to choose between Left and Right. Also, it avoids the hypocrisy of a 'free vote' in Parliament where people never really had the chance to have their democratic say at the general election.

On the economy, we're the only party that can afford tax cuts and public spending increases at the same time - so something for both Left and Right too.

We have a real range of perspectives in this party, and it's very difficult to write policy to suit everyone. Under the circumstances, I think the party is nearly as close as possible to keeping everyone happy.

However, I do think our immigration policy needs a bit of work. I've met a lot of party members who don't like the tone of the general election message.

John-C

"However, I do think our immigration policy needs a bit of work. I've met a lot of party members who don't like the tone of the general election message."

Exactly. Such a policy, and, but not only, it's presentation, was a liability and made some of us so uncomfortable we couldn't even vote U.K.I.P.. I hoped the Party would do badly as a result of this policy, in order to teach the leadership a valuable lesson, and then make the Party soften it's position on this issue. I think this was the main reason for the Party failing to do better after the excellent and well deserved E.U. Election result. I never thought I would not vote for the Party I am a mamber of in an election in which they were standing, but this election I did. My partner voted U.K.I.P. in the Euro-elections but wouldn't touch them this time either.

Paul Birch

They don't really. They tend to support the "civil liberties" of their swing voters out of expedience - especially if they are destructive of the personal responsibility - but not consistently on principle. They are more libertine than libertarian (but with a hypocritical brand of libertinism that can easily flip right over INTO phpbb_authoritarianism). One is not a genuine supporter of liberty if, for example, one favours the liberty to be an active homosexual but not the liberty of other people to have nothing to do with homosexuals or homosexuality.

Yes and no. The Lib Dem policy is opportunistic - purely a means of attacking a rival party and conning the public. I have little doubt that, were they in power, they would be introducing very similar (if not worse) measures themselves.