Could we ever unite?

Jean Pool · 20-05-2005, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomPhil

To ask whether Veritas and UKIP will "unite" is nonsense. Veritas is not a serious political party. It's just a collection of people who fell for RKS' lies and smooth talk.

I have to say that having heard a lot of what RKS has said recently regarding immigration, etc., I must wonder why he is not a member of the BNP? Perhaps because they wouldn't let him lead it?

Veritas never were and never will be a serious political party. The sooner Veritas members realise this and come back to UKIP, the better.

Not a case of "Veritas and UKIP" uniting. Not at all. There is a world outside of UKIP, you know. An electorate as yet unconvinced. And for the record, many in Veritas were/are not from a UKIP background. Don't you think it might be viable to actually take a look at how beneficial a centre-right(if that sounds outmoded to some - so be it) political umbrella would look to the electorate? Have you any other vaguely attractive package which may garner results?

Look past the end of your nose and you may find that loosening up a bit and actually appealling to the general public as a whole - as opposed to small sectors of it, could have substantial long-term effect.

I need a G&T. The small-mindedness on here is enough to drive one to the edge :x

Biscuitman · 20-05-2005, 06:22 PM

If Veritas is the answer then goodness knows what the question was.

TomPhil · 20-05-2005, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean Pool

Not a case of "Veritas and UKIP" uniting. Not at all. There is a world outside of UKIP, you know. An electorate as yet unconvinced. And for the record, many in Veritas were/are not from a UKIP background.

Yeah, I guess that I've got to agree with you there. There's a few from a BNP background also. The kind of people who hold BNP views but don't want to be a member of the BNP because of the negative connotations. So they look for the closest party that doesn't have such associations. It used to be UKIP, now it's Veritas. I think the Vanitas spoof site got it right when it said "UKIP used to be full of fascist nutters - but I took them all with me to VANITAS".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean Pool

Don't you think it might be viable to actually take a look at how beneficial a centre-right(if that sounds outmoded to some - so be it) political umbrella would look to the electorate? Have you any other vaguely attractive package which may garner results?

Yeah, a "centre-right package" looks good. Which is exactly why we don't want to join with Veritas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jean Pool

Look past the end of your nose and you may find that loosening up a bit and actually appealling to the general public as a whole - as opposed to small sectors of it, could have substantial long-term effect.

I need a G&T. The small-mindedness on here is enough to drive one to the edge :x

If you dislike small-mindedness, then I can't understand why you would want people like RKS back in the party?

Open your eyes and look at what Veritas is. It's not the sort of thing we want to be associated with. Most of its membership base is people so fickle that they had a temper tantrum as soon as some ego-centric TV personality was snubbed for the leadership and ran off to join his ego-trip. We don't want them. They would only do us harm.

Anyway, no re-unite will ever happen, because RKS would want to be leader of the new united party.

FuroraCeltica · 21-05-2005, 01:23 AM

UKIP doesnt need RKS.

I avoided the temptation to say "Because we are doing fine without him", because, well, we arent doing fine. We only polled an average of 2.5% of seats we contested in the North West of England, and even in our target seats in Southern England, only averaged 8%. So its true we do need to add something. However, that something is NOT RKS re-joining us. It would add nothing to us, and would not propel us to glory. If he is such a talisman for success, why did Veritas do even worse than us in the General Election? Why did he only just scrape the votes needed to win his deposit? Why is his party un-ravelling in the aftermath of that election?

Furthermore, after our most successful ever election (the Europeans, where we won 12 MEP's) rather than build on that success, he suggested a leadership contest, implicitly stating that he should be the leader of a party he'd only been a member of for a few weeks! I mean, if you worked at an office for a few weeks, then said you should be CEO, you see how ridiculous it is.

When it became obvious he wasn't going to be leader, he sat in his MEP seat in Brussels/Strasbourg sulking like a moody teenager, and severely handicapping our united front. Goodness knows how much damage he could have caused has he not left as soon as he did.

Theres plenty of things we can do to improve; but making peace with RKS isn't one of them.

smooveOp · 21-05-2005, 08:12 AM

Well, it's clear that there is a lot of bitterness regarding RKS.

Hardly surprising.

But I knew that when I started this thread. If I can restate my original question:

Quote:

Please indulge me.

I would like to ignore the strong personalities of our respective leaders for the moment...

At membership level, do UKIP members feel that our two parties could ever unite, either as one party, or, within an electoral alliance?

I think that dragging up the past regarding RKS is missing the point.

The point is that neither of us did very well during the election which you've been honest enough to admit.

Presumably, you would like to do a bit better.

Can I put it to you that if UKIP has reached its ceiling as far as the domestic vote is concerned, it may be time to start thinking more radically about new ways forward?

Biscuitman · 21-05-2005, 08:54 AM

I dont especially feel bitter about RK-S, we benifitted from the time he was with us.

However, he made his choice and thats that.

lkelly · 21-05-2005, 05:16 PM

I prefer V's stand on immigration. 85% of people also want less immigration!

Also, V is more woman focussed, which I also prefer!

I am not giving up on Veritas!

They also have a good green policy.

However, an umbrella group/coalition would be good. I think it should be called the 'English Alliance'. People keep noting that we are the English only, who have issues about immigration and asylum. E.g. the Scots don't, and have said so several times. The Welsh and the Irish have said so, too. We may as well acknowledge this, and be not ashamed of our wish to control our own country. It is ours, after all!

Thus, I believe that Veritas really does have political differences with UKIP. However, the obvious advantages to our aims if we formed an alliance make it worth doing so, in my opinion.

If people could contain their feelings, it would help us to achieve a main aim. To keep our country for ourselves!

smooveOp · 21-05-2005, 08:04 PM

:roll: Anyway....

lkelly · 23-05-2005, 07:10 PM

They did ask! 8)

20-05-2005, 06:22 PM	#42 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,485	If Veritas is the answer then goodness knows what the question was. __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

21-05-2005, 01:23 AM	#44 (permalink)
FuroraCeltica Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Manchester Posts: 448	UKIP doesnt need RKS. I avoided the temptation to say "Because we are doing fine without him", because, well, we arent doing fine. We only polled an average of 2.5% of seats we contested in the North West of England, and even in our target seats in Southern England, only averaged 8%. So its true we do need to add something. However, that something is NOT RKS re-joining us. It would add nothing to us, and would not propel us to glory. If he is such a talisman for success, why did Veritas do even worse than us in the General Election? Why did he only just scrape the votes needed to win his deposit? Why is his party un-ravelling in the aftermath of that election? Furthermore, after our most successful ever election (the Europeans, where we won 12 MEP's) rather than build on that success, he suggested a leadership contest, implicitly stating that he should be the leader of a party he'd only been a member of for a few weeks! I mean, if you worked at an office for a few weeks, then said you should be CEO, you see how ridiculous it is. When it became obvious he wasn't going to be leader, he sat in his MEP seat in Brussels/Strasbourg sulking like a moody teenager, and severely handicapping our united front. Goodness knows how much damage he could have caused has he not left as soon as he did. Theres plenty of things we can do to improve; but making peace with RKS isn't one of them. __________________ Every great movement must experience three stages: ridicule, discussion, adoption. John Stuart Mill One person with a belief is equal to ninety-nine who have only interests. Stuart Mill

21-05-2005, 08:54 AM	#46 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,485	I dont especially feel bitter about RK-S, we benifitted from the time he was with us. However, he made his choice and thats that. __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

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21-05-2005, 05:16 PM	#47 (permalink)
lkelly Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: London. Posts: 636	I prefer V's stand on immigration. 85% of people also want less immigration! Also, V is more woman focussed, which I also prefer! I am not giving up on Veritas! They also have a good green policy. However, an umbrella group/coalition would be good. I think it should be called the 'English Alliance'. People keep noting that we are the English only, who have issues about immigration and asylum. E.g. the Scots don't, and have said so several times. The Welsh and the Irish have said so, too. We may as well acknowledge this, and be not ashamed of our wish to control our own country. It is ours, after all! Thus, I believe that Veritas really does have political differences with UKIP. However, the obvious advantages to our aims if we formed an alliance make it worth doing so, in my opinion. If people could contain their feelings, it would help us to achieve a main aim. To keep our country for ourselves!

21-05-2005, 08:04 PM	#48 (permalink)
smooveOp Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Middlesex Posts: 571	:roll: Anyway....

23-05-2005, 07:10 PM	#49 (permalink)
lkelly Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: London. Posts: 636	They did ask! 8)