Could we ever unite?

smooveOp · 20-05-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biscuitman

Why on earth would UKIP want or need to merge?

28,000+ members and 12 years standing on one side and a handful of members and 20 or so weeks standing on the other - hmmm, hard one to call.

Well, if you'll excuse me from talking in football terms for a moment.

When Coventry City were in the Premiership, the club's name was a byword for "non-achievement", "comfortable complacency" etc. etc.

Where are they now?

Look, I suppose you can either ambitious or comfortable or extinct - your choice.

I suspect that without a complete makeover, UKIP could never increase their overall share of the vote significantly. Look at some of the other threads on this forum, "not enough working class votes" etc. I know that some of you can see the problems...

But it does seem that part of your party is quite content to leave things as they are.

What are your aims? How long have you got?

UKIP MAN · 20-05-2005, 02:50 PM

smooveOp wrote:

Quote:

What are your aims? How long have you got?

you could join our party/P*** up.

have you read this.

http://www.ukipforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=3963

smooveOp · 20-05-2005, 02:57 PM

I suppose that life is for living...

Still, the questions about your party remain in many people's minds.

Biscuitman · 20-05-2005, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Well, if you'll excuse me from talking in football terms for a moment.

When Coventry City were in the Premiership, the club's name was a byword for "non-achievement", "comfortable complacency" etc. etc.

Where are they now?

Look, I suppose you can either ambitious or comfortable or extinct - your choice.

I suspect that without a complete makeover, UKIP could never increase their overall share of the vote significantly. Look at some of the other threads on this forum, "not enough working class votes" etc. I know that some of you can see the problems...

I'm by no means having a pop at you personally, but how would us 'merging' with Veritas solve UKIPs problems?

smooveOp · 20-05-2005, 03:30 PM

Fair point and a fair answer would be that I'm not entirely sure.

What is true, as the last election showed, is that there is a dangerous consensus between the main parties on a number of very important issues.

Europe for one. The actual differences between Lib, Lab & Con are only questions of degree.

The imposition of the new orthadoxy of multiculturalism for another. No one dares to even ask whether it is in our long-term interests?

(...no, I'm not another closet BNP member... I'd sooner vote Labour than BNP... I welcome people from other races/cultures etc. and I'm pleased to count many as my friends BUT I don't like to see our own cultural identity weakened any further by the undemocratic and unthinking imposition of multiculturalism)

I just wonder whether we will ever see the rise of a 4th national political party with a strong united voice? If not, none of us have much chance at all.

Biscuitman · 20-05-2005, 03:47 PM

Going off topic on multi-culturalism for a minute...

The country that is most successful at absorbing immigrants is the USA... they have just about every race and creed amongst their population... but only one culture.

smooveOp · 20-05-2005, 03:54 PM

I see that we actually agree on a lot of things...

UKIP have never really pushed this though?

Jean Pool · 20-05-2005, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biscuitman

I remember an announcement by the Roman Catholic church that they would 'merge' with any other denomination/faith as long as the other party accepted the Pope as head of the resultant merger and the other party adopted the pricipals of roman catholisism.

I'd offer the same to any member of Veritas who proposed a 'merger'.

UKIP is, was and will be UKIP. Those who chose to leave and go elsewhere, not just to Veritas, are welcome to rejoin UKIP.

Why on earth would UKIP want or need to merge?

28,000+ members and 12 years standing on one side and a handful of members and 20 or so weeks standing on the other - hmmm, hard one to call.

At the risk of repeating myself, whatever internal/leadership changes are made within UKIP you're very unlikely to make a parliamentary dent because of the "one issue" general public perception of the party. Its never going to go away. That is why the only option to create a "credible force" is under a new banner- which will effectively give chance to start with a plethora of policies, not single/dual issues which is what UKIP and Veritas have done. Lessons can be learnt and headway made if only people would swallow their bloody pride for the sake of this country. Honestly, folks.... :cry:

Biscuitman · 20-05-2005, 06:32 PM

Cher Jean,

I can assure you that over the next four or five weeks there will be many meetings through out the country that will reshape the party.

The big question facing us is do we become just a pressure group, fight the referendum and if we win pack up and if we lose pack up.

Or do we try to establish ourselves as a 'proper party'.

If we go for the proper party then their is merit in taking a new name do cut the ties with the one issue party, on the other hand, and this I support - we have taken 12 years to establish UKIP as a known name - we cannot go back to square one.

My thoughts are don't panic - think things through for a month or so and then start putting the foundations in place to take us forward.

Please excuse me now, theres a bottle downstairs with my name on it and its starting to cry.

TomPhil · 20-05-2005, 06:35 PM

To ask whether Veritas and UKIP will "unite" is nonsense. Veritas is not a serious political party. It's just a collection of people who fell for RKS' lies and smooth talk.

I have to say that having heard a lot of what RKS has said recently regarding immigration, etc., I must wonder why he is not a member of the BNP? Perhaps because they wouldn't let him lead it?

Veritas never were and never will be a serious political party. The sooner Veritas members realise this and come back to UKIP, the better.

20-05-2005, 03:47 PM	#36 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,486	Going off topic on multi-culturalism for a minute... The country that is most successful at absorbing immigrants is the USA... they have just about every race and creed amongst their population... but only one culture. __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

20-05-2005, 06:32 PM	#39 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,486	Cher Jean, I can assure you that over the next four or five weeks there will be many meetings through out the country that will reshape the party. The big question facing us is do we become just a pressure group, fight the referendum and if we win pack up and if we lose pack up. Or do we try to establish ourselves as a 'proper party'. If we go for the proper party then their is merit in taking a new name do cut the ties with the one issue party, on the other hand, and this I support - we have taken 12 years to establish UKIP as a known name - we cannot go back to square one. My thoughts are don't panic - think things through for a month or so and then start putting the foundations in place to take us forward. Please excuse me now, theres a bottle downstairs with my name on it and its starting to cry. __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

20-05-2005, 06:35 PM	#40 (permalink)
TomPhil Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Stockport Posts: 498 Party: UKIP	To ask whether Veritas and UKIP will "unite" is nonsense. Veritas is not a serious political party. It's just a collection of people who fell for RKS' lies and smooth talk. I have to say that having heard a lot of what RKS has said recently regarding immigration, etc., I must wonder why he is not a member of the BNP? Perhaps because they wouldn't let him lead it? Veritas never were and never will be a serious political party. The sooner Veritas members realise this and come back to UKIP, the better. __________________ "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." In Labour we trusted and now we are busted... again. It's the economy, stupid.

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20-05-2005, 02:57 PM	#33 (permalink)
smooveOp Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Middlesex Posts: 571	I suppose that life is for living... Still, the questions about your party remain in many people's minds.

20-05-2005, 03:30 PM	#35 (permalink)
smooveOp Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Middlesex Posts: 571	Fair point and a fair answer would be that I'm not entirely sure. What is true, as the last election showed, is that there is a dangerous consensus between the main parties on a number of very important issues. Europe for one. The actual differences between Lib, Lab & Con are only questions of degree. The imposition of the new orthadoxy of multiculturalism for another. No one dares to even ask whether it is in our long-term interests? (...no, I'm not another closet BNP member... I'd sooner vote Labour than BNP... I welcome people from other races/cultures etc. and I'm pleased to count many as my friends BUT I don't like to see our own cultural identity weakened any further by the undemocratic and unthinking imposition of multiculturalism) I just wonder whether we will ever see the rise of a 4th national political party with a strong united voice? If not, none of us have much chance at all.

20-05-2005, 03:54 PM	#37 (permalink)
smooveOp Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Middlesex Posts: 571	I see that we actually agree on a lot of things... UKIP have never really pushed this though?