Use of cartoons?

Paul Birch · 07-05-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

The immigration one (the one they printed 90% of) AND put on our election addresses. I think it did us more harm than good.

Our own members were uncomfortable about handing them out in town. For me that speaks volumes.

I was uncomfortable about the focus we put on it too.

I agree. I was uncomfortable with it too (which somewhat ameliorates my annoyance at HQ's failure to print and distribute my election address). However, that's nothing much to do with the question of whether or not using cartoons is a good idea - it was the emphasis on this topic that was objectionable. Dick Morris was way off beam there - but, then, he also had some crazy notion that the British people approved the US invasion and occupation of Iraq! An anti-war stance (with or without cartoons) would probably have worked better than his anti-immigration one.

Bryan Parry · 07-05-2005, 09:21 PM

Well, Morris **IS** a yank, isn't he?

And I agree. Whatever the truth about the merits of going to war, most people- I think somewhat self-evidently- disapproved of the war. As did most of the commons, it would seem. I gather UKIP didn't have a strong line either way. I think we could have pulled the "Blair lied" thing off much better than Howard (who would have gone to war anyway), as we genuinely were quite neutral on the issue. That viewpoint sits much more comfortably with Britosn than the LibDem's ravenous anti-war position. Oh well, it's all over now.

08-05-2005, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Well, Morris **IS** a yank, isn't he?

problem is the UKIP leadership isnt and if Morris was making fundimental mistakes in what he thinks the public are all about then someone high up within UKIP should have spoken up and told him that that approch would not work here

mkpdavies · 08-05-2005, 10:22 AM

Unfortunately the UKIP leadership failed in this area too. A lot of us begged them not to go down this line, but they had way too much faith in Dick Morris. I can understand why, but the fact the membership were reacting the way we did, should have sent a loud message as to how the British public at large would react.

I hope they will put their hands up and admit they failed to listen to the membership, instead listening to a spin doctor. That rankles with me more than anything to be honest.

The cartoon idea I think was worth a shot and I do wonder if the message had been right, whether it would have been successful.

I would be very interested in hearing how well each cartoon did, in getting people to send in for info.

Sarumano · 08-05-2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Cartoons are a great idea, if they are done well, in fact they are often the funniest part of Private Eye

I agree that the cartoons make us different. Every other political leaflet I had was 'professionally' done... pics of politician shaking hands with baby, politician talking to chav, friendly politician kissing sailor, politician polishing magnificent organ... we get that every election.

Immigration was not our best point, it puts us in the BNP camp, and they do it better, years of experience. We should have gone along the lines of "Why don't the other parties talk about...?" with a two-letter answer. But nobody asked my opinion.

I hadn't noticed that the leaflets all held the same message on the back, but now that it's been mentioned... next time six points that match the cartoon?

Loved the PPB! Even politically cynical daughter cracked a smile 8)

Hudson · 09-05-2005, 01:34 AM

All cartoons have to do is get folks to read the leaflet. Unfortunately, I thought the cartoons UKIP used were trying too hard. They were reminiscent of the broadsheet newspaper style; too often a weak visual pun that has to be explained by labelling every item in the picture. By trying to give too much information they lacked punch. Also, I believe the broadsheet style might have put off a lot of people for whom newspaper cartoons mean Andy Capp.

A German wartime cartoon called 'The Allies' showed John Bull pulling the plough, Uncle Sam guiding it and Uncle Joe sowing seed in the furrough. It needed no words and communicated its message instantly. I'm not suggesting that UKIP adopt nazi propaganda techniques but the simple, direct way the cartoon made its point was, in my opinion, more effective than the broadsheet style described above. You have about half a second to make an impression before the leaflet goes in the bin; Joe public doesn't want to have to think about your message, he wants to be told.

felneymike · 09-05-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Loved the PPB! Even politically cynical daughter cracked a smile

I saw the Film Trailer it was based on earlier, for a second when it started i thought "Eh? The election is over!"

Roger Gough · 13-05-2005, 04:28 PM

There are cartoons and there are cartoons; some appealing and some down right off-putting. A prime example is (are?) Tom and Jerry. The originals were remarkable in attracting and retaining a fan base - they won Oscars for their originality, content and animation.(They were cuddly). After a few years the animation suddenly changed completely to an updated, harder edged, 'Post modernist' style which won no awards and no friends - you rarely see them nowadays as they're so unappealing. Cartoons are a good idea but they really need detailed examination and discussion. The UKIP Immigration cartoon got some vindictive feedback in our consitit. Why? I think that a goodly number of people have pre-conceived ideas about UKIP and didn't READ what was printed. I.E. their own prejudices clicked INTO phpbb_gear as soon as they saw a fearsome 'Master Race' image frightening the children (ie Blair, Howard etc). A worthwhile exercise would now be to approach those who received such a leaflet and ask them for feedback.

mkpdavies · 13-05-2005, 04:59 PM

I had some pretty direct feed back on a couple of occasions.

One guy said, oh no it's the BNP, then slammed the door in my face.

Another one came out and shouted at me, if I was happy posting this sort of material through peoples doors. I turned around and asked what the problem was as he tore it up. He looked at me blankly, so I asked again what had offended he so much and that I would take his complaint back to the party.

He looked like an animal caught in the headlights. He had no idea what his issue was! It was soley based on his perception that immigration = racism.

So yes you are right about people having pre-conceived ideas.

However! I ask this, because this is the exact experience of how my branch reacted.

How many of your members would have a Stop Mass EU Immigration poster up?

How many of your members would be happy to hand out the immigration leaflet in town?

How did you actually feel about it?

I know I didn't feel comfortable!

Alex McKee · 13-05-2005, 05:21 PM

Nor did I. I hated the emphasis on immigration, partly because of the fact I had been trying to convince one of my friends we weren't racist for months and upon sight of the immigration posters he went back to his former party - LABOUR! :shock:

Also parly because it was all so negative, I think we need to engage the general public in OUR vision for the future, a positive picture of what we can make Britain become.

08-05-2005, 10:22 AM	#24 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Unfortunately the UKIP leadership failed in this area too. A lot of us begged them not to go down this line, but they had way too much faith in Dick Morris. I can understand why, but the fact the membership were reacting the way we did, should have sent a loud message as to how the British public at large would react. I hope they will put their hands up and admit they failed to listen to the membership, instead listening to a spin doctor. That rankles with me more than anything to be honest. The cartoon idea I think was worth a shot and I do wonder if the message had been right, whether it would have been successful. I would be very interested in hearing how well each cartoon did, in getting people to send in for info. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

13-05-2005, 04:28 PM	#28 (permalink)
Roger Gough Senior Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Hotel California Posts: 703	USE OF CARTOONS There are cartoons and there are cartoons; some appealing and some down right off-putting. A prime example is (are?) Tom and Jerry. The originals were remarkable in attracting and retaining a fan base - they won Oscars for their originality, content and animation.(They were cuddly). After a few years the animation suddenly changed completely to an updated, harder edged, 'Post modernist' style which won no awards and no friends - you rarely see them nowadays as they're so unappealing. Cartoons are a good idea but they really need detailed examination and discussion. The UKIP Immigration cartoon got some vindictive feedback in our consitit. Why? I think that a goodly number of people have pre-conceived ideas about UKIP and didn't READ what was printed. I.E. their own prejudices clicked INTO phpbb_gear as soon as they saw a fearsome 'Master Race' image frightening the children (ie Blair, Howard etc). A worthwhile exercise would now be to approach those who received such a leaflet and ask them for feedback.

13-05-2005, 04:59 PM	#29 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	I had some pretty direct feed back on a couple of occasions. One guy said, oh no it's the BNP, then slammed the door in my face. Another one came out and shouted at me, if I was happy posting this sort of material through peoples doors. I turned around and asked what the problem was as he tore it up. He looked at me blankly, so I asked again what had offended he so much and that I would take his complaint back to the party. He looked like an animal caught in the headlights. He had no idea what his issue was! It was soley based on his perception that immigration = racism. So yes you are right about people having pre-conceived ideas. However! I ask this, because this is the exact experience of how my branch reacted. How many of your members would have a Stop Mass EU Immigration poster up? How many of your members would be happy to hand out the immigration leaflet in town? How did you actually feel about it? I know I didn't feel comfortable! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

13-05-2005, 05:21 PM	#30 (permalink)
Alex McKee Moderator Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gloucester Posts: 6,634	Nor did I. I hated the emphasis on immigration, partly because of the fact I had been trying to convince one of my friends we weren't racist for months and upon sight of the immigration posters he went back to his former party - LABOUR! :shock: Also parly because it was all so negative, I think we need to engage the general public in OUR vision for the future, a positive picture of what we can make Britain become. __________________ Anything I post on this website is my personal opinion and not necessarily my professional opinion (unless stated as such) nor is an opinion necessarily shared by any committee or group I am affiliated with. Users on Ignore list: None.

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07-05-2005, 09:21 PM	#22 (permalink)
Bryan Parry Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Middlesex, England Posts: 394	Well, Morris IS a yank, isn't he? And I agree. Whatever the truth about the merits of going to war, most people- I think somewhat self-evidently- disapproved of the war. As did most of the commons, it would seem. I gather UKIP didn't have a strong line either way. I think we could have pulled the "Blair lied" thing off much better than Howard (who would have gone to war anyway), as we genuinely were quite neutral on the issue. That viewpoint sits much more comfortably with Britosn than the LibDem's ravenous anti-war position. Oh well, it's all over now.

09-05-2005, 01:34 AM	#26 (permalink)
Hudson Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Staffordshire Posts: 270	All cartoons have to do is get folks to read the leaflet. Unfortunately, I thought the cartoons UKIP used were trying too hard. They were reminiscent of the broadsheet newspaper style; too often a weak visual pun that has to be explained by labelling every item in the picture. By trying to give too much information they lacked punch. Also, I believe the broadsheet style might have put off a lot of people for whom newspaper cartoons mean Andy Capp. A German wartime cartoon called 'The Allies' showed John Bull pulling the plough, Uncle Sam guiding it and Uncle Joe sowing seed in the furrough. It needed no words and communicated its message instantly. I'm not suggesting that UKIP adopt nazi propaganda techniques but the simple, direct way the cartoon made its point was, in my opinion, more effective than the broadsheet style described above. You have about half a second to make an impression before the leaflet goes in the bin; Joe public doesn't want to have to think about your message, he wants to be told.