GMB commits to campaign against BNP (and UKIP) at election

Tom Wilde · 02-03-2005, 08:42 PM

Yes, there is often a political contributions levy included in the monthly union membership fee. I can't remember whether individuals can opt out or whether it is just a vote at a union AGM that can stop the contributions. The former, I think, but it's been a few years since I was in a union and I can't really remember.

Sarumano · 03-03-2005, 02:29 AM

You can opt out of Political contribution, but not out of the union subscription. I've been in Unison for years and AFAIK haven't paid a sou to the Labour Party.

I believe the choice is written INTO phpbb_Union Law somewhere.

Mind you, the blighters cut me dead without warning when I was made redundant, because my subs came from my salary. (therefore....)
So when I found out I asked them; 'When am I MOST likely to want the Union's help???

Independence Now! · 03-03-2005, 02:53 AM

I am afraid this bigot from the GMB has hit upon what is UKIP's main problem. He is attaching a label to you which the mass media will and does use repeatedly to describe you and one which, I suspect, the majority of the electorate would think of as UKIP's position in the political spectrum.

How is UKIP going to unite the electorate around what seems to most of them as UKIP's single aim of withdrawal from the EU? This single aim will not get you anywhere near government, even if we had a fair and democratic voting system.

The problem for UKIP is that it lacks internal agreement on any other policy other than your central aim. As soon as you start talking about other issues then the disagreements will breakout. You lack a coherent political philosophy.

As far as I can see, the only parties which would have the potential to take Britain out of the EU is either a proper Left-wing party like Arthur Scargill's Socialist Labour Party or a coherent nationalist 'Right-wing' party like the BNP or if one of the existing parties suddenly woke-up and realised this was a good policy.

You need to develop a coherent political philosophy (inevitably, this will tend to either the Left or the Right) and stop trying to be all things to all men. I can't see a centrist party like UKIP ever becoming sufficiently popular and cohesive to win a general election.

Bluemerle · 03-03-2005, 08:38 AM

"You need to develop a coherent political philosophy (inevitably, this will tend to either the Left or the Right) and stop trying to be all things to all men. I can't see a centrist party like UKIP ever becoming sufficiently popular and cohesive to win a general election".

How come all the 3 main parties are trying to get INTO phpbb_the centre, and the media are constantly telling them that they mustn't move left or right, or they will be doomed?? :shock:

mkpdavies · 03-03-2005, 08:41 AM

Come on Blue, don't fall for it. Anyone who suggests the BNP or Arthur Scargill will be a vote puller, clearly is speaking from another dimension to us.

Hartlepool · 03-03-2005, 08:58 AM

And out of their rear end as well....

Independence Now! · 03-03-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Come on Blue, don't fall for it. Anyone who suggests the BNP or Arthur Scargill will be a vote puller, clearly is speaking from another dimension to us.

Why am I speaking "from another dimension to us"? Most of the electorate tends to veer either to the Left or the Right . This is one of the reasons why the Lib Dems are still clearly the third party in British politics. This is also why their vote tends to fluctuate a lot as they have a very small 'core' level of support.

A centrist, libertarian party like UKIP is alien to most of the publics' political values and I'm sorry but this means you are only destined to do well at European elections where this single issue of Europe is paramount in the political debate.

This is why I think that only a distinctly 'Right-wing' or 'Left-wing' party will be able to draw enough support from the electorate to make the aim of EU withdrawal a reality.

Do you seriously believe that you are going to translate your support at the European Elections last year (before your disastrous split with Kiroy-Silk) to any seats in Parliament at a general election? You were able to win seats in that election because A.) it was focussed upon the single issue of the EU and b.) the voting system of PR. You will need to grapple with many more issues than the EU at a general election and you will not have the advantage of a PR electoral system.

Independence Now! · 03-03-2005, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hartlepool

And out of their rear end as well....

Why be so rude?

mkpdavies · 03-03-2005, 03:51 PM

Independence now, you have your opinion and you are entiltled to it. I just don't think becoming an extremist party on either wing is the answer.

What is right wing or left wing anyway? All I know is the BNP will forever be a minority party, as they are way too focused on skin colour, which isn't a good argument base.

Arthur Scargil was a jumped up communist, a laughing stock and a failure. He led the miners to extinction. Not my idea of a good leader.

UKIP are still growing at rapid rate. The RKS thing was unfortunate, but some areas are actually gaining support for losing him, while others have been adversley effected. Nobody knows what will happen with Veritas, it will be interesting to see where they go. If they don't get the instant gratification of election success, I wonder if they will be around much longer after it.

UKIP may or may not be the party that takes this country from the brink. At the moment, it is the biggest opposition to the mainstream. After the election we may well see some big changes that see some mergers, collapses, who knows. I believe UKIP will be heavily involved whatever the outcome.

All I know, is more and more people are getting sick of the mainstream. That doesn't mean they will turn to extreme solutions. The British don't do extreme!

Independence Now! · 03-03-2005, 04:31 PM

Of course, the definition of what constitutes 'extreme' is a subjective one in politics. After all, many people might well think that Blair's policies are extreme in regard to the EU and some other areas and yet he has still won two huge landslide victories. I just think that there is little evidence to suggest that a party advocating EU withdrawal is going to be able to build a wide enough coalition of support to win a general election under the present unfair and undemocratic FPTP system without tilting either to the Right or to the Left. Centrist parties don't have a very good record in terms of electoral success in this country. What I am saying (I may be wrong) is that I don't think that this issue of EU withdrawal has enough potency for the electorate to win a general election on its own as UKIP seem to think it does.

03-03-2005, 08:41 AM	#15 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,849 Party: Libertarian Party	Come on Blue, don't fall for it. Anyone who suggests the BNP or Arthur Scargill will be a vote puller, clearly is speaking from another dimension to us. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

03-03-2005, 03:51 PM	#19 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,849 Party: Libertarian Party	Independence now, you have your opinion and you are entiltled to it. I just don't think becoming an extremist party on either wing is the answer. What is right wing or left wing anyway? All I know is the BNP will forever be a minority party, as they are way too focused on skin colour, which isn't a good argument base. Arthur Scargil was a jumped up communist, a laughing stock and a failure. He led the miners to extinction. Not my idea of a good leader. UKIP are still growing at rapid rate. The RKS thing was unfortunate, but some areas are actually gaining support for losing him, while others have been adversley effected. Nobody knows what will happen with Veritas, it will be interesting to see where they go. If they don't get the instant gratification of election success, I wonder if they will be around much longer after it. UKIP may or may not be the party that takes this country from the brink. At the moment, it is the biggest opposition to the mainstream. After the election we may well see some big changes that see some mergers, collapses, who knows. I believe UKIP will be heavily involved whatever the outcome. All I know, is more and more people are getting sick of the mainstream. That doesn't mean they will turn to extreme solutions. The British don't do extreme! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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02-03-2005, 08:42 PM	#11 (permalink)
Tom Wilde Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: London. Posts: 2,891	Yes, there is often a political contributions levy included in the monthly union membership fee. I can't remember whether individuals can opt out or whether it is just a vote at a union AGM that can stop the contributions. The former, I think, but it's been a few years since I was in a union and I can't really remember.

03-03-2005, 02:29 AM	#12 (permalink)
Sarumano Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Salisbury Posts: 309	You can opt out of Political contribution, but not out of the union subscription. I've been in Unison for years and AFAIK haven't paid a sou to the Labour Party. I believe the choice is written INTO phpbb_Union Law somewhere. Mind you, the blighters cut me dead without warning when I was made redundant, because my subs came from my salary. (therefore....) So when I found out I asked them; 'When am I MOST likely to want the Union's help???

03-03-2005, 02:53 AM	#13 (permalink)
Independence Now! Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,096	I am afraid this bigot from the GMB has hit upon what is UKIP's main problem. He is attaching a label to you which the mass media will and does use repeatedly to describe you and one which, I suspect, the majority of the electorate would think of as UKIP's position in the political spectrum. How is UKIP going to unite the electorate around what seems to most of them as UKIP's single aim of withdrawal from the EU? This single aim will not get you anywhere near government, even if we had a fair and democratic voting system. The problem for UKIP is that it lacks internal agreement on any other policy other than your central aim. As soon as you start talking about other issues then the disagreements will breakout. You lack a coherent political philosophy. As far as I can see, the only parties which would have the potential to take Britain out of the EU is either a proper Left-wing party like Arthur Scargill's Socialist Labour Party or a coherent nationalist 'Right-wing' party like the BNP or if one of the existing parties suddenly woke-up and realised this was a good policy. You need to develop a coherent political philosophy (inevitably, this will tend to either the Left or the Right) and stop trying to be all things to all men. I can't see a centrist party like UKIP ever becoming sufficiently popular and cohesive to win a general election.

03-03-2005, 08:38 AM	#14 (permalink)
Bluemerle Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dorset. Posts: 3,252	"You need to develop a coherent political philosophy (inevitably, this will tend to either the Left or the Right) and stop trying to be all things to all men. I can't see a centrist party like UKIP ever becoming sufficiently popular and cohesive to win a general election". How come all the 3 main parties are trying to get INTO phpbb_the centre, and the media are constantly telling them that they mustn't move left or right, or they will be doomed?? :shock:

03-03-2005, 08:58 AM	#16 (permalink)
Hartlepool Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North East England Posts: 6,785 Party: Free England Party	And out of their rear end as well....

03-03-2005, 04:31 PM	#20 (permalink)
Independence Now! Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 1,096	Of course, the definition of what constitutes 'extreme' is a subjective one in politics. After all, many people might well think that Blair's policies are extreme in regard to the EU and some other areas and yet he has still won two huge landslide victories. I just think that there is little evidence to suggest that a party advocating EU withdrawal is going to be able to build a wide enough coalition of support to win a general election under the present unfair and undemocratic FPTP system without tilting either to the Right or to the Left. Centrist parties don't have a very good record in terms of electoral success in this country. What I am saying (I may be wrong) is that I don't think that this issue of EU withdrawal has enough potency for the electorate to win a general election on its own as UKIP seem to think it does.