UKIP put candidate up against RKS

DerekSmith · 07-03-2005, 10:08 AM

I should be appalled, but sadly I am not.

At grass roots membership level we all know it is one fight - to leave the EU, and that if we split the public vote by putting up two 'Leave the EU' candidates then there is a high chance that neither will get in and we will be doing the work of the EU for them. The EU quislings will not have to spoil our chances, we will be doing it ourselves.

I have believed for some time now that UKIP Leaders did not want to allow us to have a fighting chance to leave the EU. This action sadly proves exactly that point. This action sadly means that UKIP is no longer an asset to the fight to leave the EU - it is now clearly a liability to our cause.

Any party which will misuses its employees (GK works for DC) in this way, to deliberately spoil our chances of leaving the EU, should have its members look long and hard at the facts before them. Do not have your efforts abused.

Derek Smith

Veritas Member (ex UKIP Member)

mkpdavies · 07-03-2005, 11:50 AM

Unfortunately exactly the same can be said of Veritas. When prominent members such as Martin Cole with his anti-UKIP blog and another who posts here occasionaly under a pseudoname, continue to undermine UKIP, you have to say Veritas leadership is no better.

Sorry you can't see the wood for the trees. The clash of egos goes on.

Bobby-Veritas's Boy · 07-03-2005, 12:03 PM

Who is this other cad, unmask the scoundrel! :shock: :shock:

Lighten up Matt

DerekSmith · 08-03-2005, 12:42 PM

Matt,

To post UKIP critical comment on this forum is one thing. To put up double candidates for the 'Leave the EU' lobby is aimed solely at spoiling our chances of success.

By 'our chances' I mean us the people, not UKIP, nor Veritas nor any other specific party.

I think I can see both the woods and the trees and the problem clearly stems from the leadership, not we the groundforce. Just because we can see what is going on does not make it any the more acceptable, and even though there is nothing I can do about it, does not mean that I should refrain from commenting on it and the probable consequences as I see them.

DerekSmith

Tom Wilde · 08-03-2005, 02:12 PM

I too think that it is a mistake for UKIP to run a candidate against RKS. I agree that we should be working to avoid having both UKIP and Veritas candidates running in the same constituencies, and this hardly helps towards that end.

Talking of Martin Cole, I'm grimly amused to see that after working so hard and so venomously to exacerbate the split within UKIP, his latest blog posting includes this:

Quote:

With EU opponents such as these supposedly fighting the EU, no wonder Britain is now so almost entirely ensnared. The next general election, perhaps only two months away, will clearly be the last chance to fight off the EU. Small Euro-sceptic parties should now be combining to fight the big three large and united euro-committed political establishment of Labour, Conservative and the Liberal Democrats.

Rather than that, however, I fear what appears to be on the cards in the coming General Election contest is Euro-sceptic candidates fighting one another and not the devious, untruthful, non-democratic, globalist, corporatist and therefore effectively corrupted candidates from the Labour, Conservative and Liberal Democrat parties who have together delivered their country and their countrymen INTO phpbb_the hands and clearly non-existent mercies of others.

You don't say, Martin? :roll:

Pity he didn't think of this earlier.

Paul Birch · 08-03-2005, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wilde

I too think that it is a mistake for UKIP to run a candidate against RKS.

I don't agree. After all the fuss people were making about UKIP not being seen as a single issue party, it is important that we are not seen as making deals with any other party - Conservatives, Veritas or whomever. All the electorate should be given a chance to vote UKIP. If I were a voter prevented from voting UKIP that way I'd be royally p****d off, and then neither UKIP nor Veritas would get my vote. So if at all possible we should stand everywhere. Veritas must realise that we are not allies; we are rivals. They are the interlopers, not us. And that was their choice, not ours. There is not the slightest reason why we should roll over for them - any more than for alleged Conservative eurosceptics.

mkpdavies · 08-03-2005, 05:24 PM

What about this sceario Paul.

Three seats to pick from. One has Labour, Cons and Libs. Another has Labour, Cons and Libs. The third has Labour Conns, Libs and Vertias.

On past results the first place is hopeless for UKIP. The second is pretty good and the third is pretty good too (but Kilroy may have damaged it).

Which two would you choose, seeing as we only have two candidates available?

Paul Birch · 08-03-2005, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

What about this sceario Paul.

Three seats to pick from. One has Labour, Cons and Libs. Another has Labour, Cons and Libs. The third has Labour Conns, Libs and Vertias.

On past results the first place is hopeless for UKIP. The second is pretty good and the third is pretty good too (but Kilroy may have damaged it).

Which two would you choose, seeing as we only have two candidates available?

Assuming that the two candidates are willing to stand for any of the three seats (which of course they might not be), then obviously we go for number two. The other place is debatable, but I think, on long term strategic grounds as well as short term hopes, I'd go for number three. But I wouldn't strenuously object to number one instead.

mkpdavies · 09-03-2005, 09:52 AM

Fair enough.

My biggest concern isn't whether we upset RKS or veritas, but that we are focussed on making sure the whole of the UK gets a chance to vote for a true anti-EU candidate.

Sometimes we may think we have a very good chance of winning a seat, which Veritas do too. I see no way of avoiding a clash there.

In areas where Veritas CLEARLY will have more chance (I would suggest as this is RKS, he will have more chance than our candidate), then we should look to another seat.

I wish we could stand in every single seat, but that doesn't look likely now.

07-03-2005, 11:50 AM	#12 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,849 Party: Libertarian Party	Unfortunately exactly the same can be said of Veritas. When prominent members such as Martin Cole with his anti-UKIP blog and another who posts here occasionaly under a pseudoname, continue to undermine UKIP, you have to say Veritas leadership is no better. Sorry you can't see the wood for the trees. The clash of egos goes on. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

08-03-2005, 05:24 PM	#17 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,849 Party: Libertarian Party	What about this sceario Paul. Three seats to pick from. One has Labour, Cons and Libs. Another has Labour, Cons and Libs. The third has Labour Conns, Libs and Vertias. On past results the first place is hopeless for UKIP. The second is pretty good and the third is pretty good too (but Kilroy may have damaged it). Which two would you choose, seeing as we only have two candidates available? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

09-03-2005, 09:52 AM	#19 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,849 Party: Libertarian Party	Fair enough. My biggest concern isn't whether we upset RKS or veritas, but that we are focussed on making sure the whole of the UK gets a chance to vote for a true anti-EU candidate. Sometimes we may think we have a very good chance of winning a seat, which Veritas do too. I see no way of avoiding a clash there. In areas where Veritas CLEARLY will have more chance (I would suggest as this is RKS, he will have more chance than our candidate), then we should look to another seat. I wish we could stand in every single seat, but that doesn't look likely now. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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07-03-2005, 10:08 AM	#11 (permalink)
DerekSmith Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Lincs. Posts: 48	I should be appalled, but sadly I am not. At grass roots membership level we all know it is one fight - to leave the EU, and that if we split the public vote by putting up two 'Leave the EU' candidates then there is a high chance that neither will get in and we will be doing the work of the EU for them. The EU quislings will not have to spoil our chances, we will be doing it ourselves. I have believed for some time now that UKIP Leaders did not want to allow us to have a fighting chance to leave the EU. This action sadly proves exactly that point. This action sadly means that UKIP is no longer an asset to the fight to leave the EU - it is now clearly a liability to our cause. Any party which will misuses its employees (GK works for DC) in this way, to deliberately spoil our chances of leaving the EU, should have its members look long and hard at the facts before them. Do not have your efforts abused. Derek Smith Veritas Member (ex UKIP Member)

07-03-2005, 12:03 PM	#13 (permalink)
Bobby-Veritas's Boy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 349	Who is this other cad, unmask the scoundrel! :shock: :shock: Lighten up Matt

08-03-2005, 12:42 PM	#14 (permalink)
DerekSmith Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Lincs. Posts: 48	Matt, To post UKIP critical comment on this forum is one thing. To put up double candidates for the 'Leave the EU' lobby is aimed solely at spoiling our chances of success. By 'our chances' I mean us the people, not UKIP, nor Veritas nor any other specific party. I think I can see both the woods and the trees and the problem clearly stems from the leadership, not we the groundforce. Just because we can see what is going on does not make it any the more acceptable, and even though there is nothing I can do about it, does not mean that I should refrain from commenting on it and the probable consequences as I see them. DerekSmith