Peter Hulme Cross defects as well

Anthony Butcher · 31-01-2005, 03:50 PM

http://www.epolitix.com/EN/News/2005...0b389b6085.htm

Quote:

Both of UKIP's London assembly members have now defected to Robert Kilroy-Silk's new eurosceptic party Veritas.

At the weekend UKIP's leader in the assembly Damian Hockney announced he was leaving to become deputy leader of Veritas.

And on Monday Hockney revealed to ePolitix.com that his colleague at the assembly Peter Hulme Cross was also defecting.

The fact that both men have left will allow them to keep "party group status", which requires at least two members, giving them support staff and other benefits.

Hockney also told this website that UKIP's scheduled NEC meeting had been cancelled as a result of his move.

We no longer have any UKIP representation on the London Assembly.

mkpdavies · 31-01-2005, 03:55 PM

Not surprising, but damaging all the same. The eurosceptic movement has been put back years.

B.A.Ware · 31-01-2005, 03:57 PM

Is this a good thing or bad I have read write-ups on both arguments and I don’t know which to believe.

mkpdavies · 31-01-2005, 04:01 PM

Who knows in the long term. Short term is damages UKIP. Long term is anyone guess. It was well known that the London branch were the drivers in the campaign for Kilroy.

UKIP is damaged, Veritas will be a minor blip in the election.

One can only hope that one of the two become stronger for it in the long term. I can only see each sniping at each other until the eurosceptic cause is dead in the water.

We will see.

Anthony Butcher · 31-01-2005, 04:03 PM

Anyone leaving the party at the moment is a bad thing, especially when they are from our very small group of elected representatives.

We used to have 12 MEPs and 2 AMs, now we have 10 MEPs and 0 AMs.

Some members are relieved that the more critical elements of the party are jumping ship, but I think more damage is done this way. The public never really saw the internal arguments, but they are definitely seeing this.

B.A.Ware · 31-01-2005, 04:22 PM

I agree we do not need to air our dirty linen in public I hope the people at the top don’t get roped INTO phpbb_a slanging match about this. I think it is a shame we have very little representation in London now.

(And then there were ten)

mkpdavies · 31-01-2005, 04:26 PM

It has already become a slanging match. Everytime Vertias attack UKIP, UKIP will respond and vice versa. In the meantime Blair/Howard/Kennedy will be handing over the keys and passing out the silver.

Dave · 31-01-2005, 05:31 PM

Who says that they were the critical element in the party, just because you try and bring democracy to the party you are sullied by those who don't.

DH and RKS are both big big losses, UKIP is damaged beyond repair, but not by those that are leaving.

Dave

jp · 31-01-2005, 05:58 PM

We have reached a critical and most interesting point.

Can Veritas with presumably much higher media interest, overwhelm a more established (albeit poorly led) UKIP?

I don't think there is a foregone conclusion to this question (although no doubt the fanatics on both sides will disagree!)

Sarumano · 03-02-2005, 02:16 AM

Answer is simple. UKIP never rises to the bait.

If Vanitas says something, if it's anti-eu, we support it. If it's not, the stock comment will be words to the effect of "well ,we're all aiming for the same goal- UK out of the EU"

If anyone starts a slanging match, the press will be on it like jackals. I know the saying 'no such thing as bad publicity', but Vanitas has a boss who has the ear of the press for whatever reason; any mud is going to come in UKIPs direction more likely than not.

All we need do as a party is keep repeating the Mantra "Yes, but that's already UKIP policy"

31-01-2005, 03:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,843 Party: Libertarian Party	Not surprising, but damaging all the same. The eurosceptic movement has been put back years. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

31-01-2005, 04:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,843 Party: Libertarian Party	Who knows in the long term. Short term is damages UKIP. Long term is anyone guess. It was well known that the London branch were the drivers in the campaign for Kilroy. UKIP is damaged, Veritas will be a minor blip in the election. One can only hope that one of the two become stronger for it in the long term. I can only see each sniping at each other until the eurosceptic cause is dead in the water. We will see. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

31-01-2005, 04:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,843 Party: Libertarian Party	It has already become a slanging match. Everytime Vertias attack UKIP, UKIP will respond and vice versa. In the meantime Blair/Howard/Kennedy will be handing over the keys and passing out the silver. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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31-01-2005, 03:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
B.A.Ware Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 4,501 Party: UKIP	Is this a good thing or bad I have read write-ups on both arguments and I don’t know which to believe.

31-01-2005, 04:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,152 Party: None	Anyone leaving the party at the moment is a bad thing, especially when they are from our very small group of elected representatives. We used to have 12 MEPs and 2 AMs, now we have 10 MEPs and 0 AMs. Some members are relieved that the more critical elements of the party are jumping ship, but I think more damage is done this way. The public never really saw the internal arguments, but they are definitely seeing this.

31-01-2005, 04:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
B.A.Ware Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 4,501 Party: UKIP	I agree we do not need to air our dirty linen in public I hope the people at the top don’t get roped INTO phpbb_a slanging match about this. I think it is a shame we have very little representation in London now. (And then there were ten)

31-01-2005, 05:31 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dave Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 229	Who says that they were the critical element in the party, just because you try and bring democracy to the party you are sullied by those who don't. DH and RKS are both big big losses, UKIP is damaged beyond repair, but not by those that are leaving. Dave

31-01-2005, 05:58 PM	#9 (permalink)
jp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,000	We have reached a critical and most interesting point. Can Veritas with presumably much higher media interest, overwhelm a more established (albeit poorly led) UKIP? I don't think there is a foregone conclusion to this question (although no doubt the fanatics on both sides will disagree!)

03-02-2005, 02:16 AM	#10 (permalink)
Sarumano Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Salisbury Posts: 309	Answer is simple. UKIP never rises to the bait. If Vanitas says something, if it's anti-eu, we support it. If it's not, the stock comment will be words to the effect of "well ,we're all aiming for the same goal- UK out of the EU" If anyone starts a slanging match, the press will be on it like jackals. I know the saying 'no such thing as bad publicity', but Vanitas has a boss who has the ear of the press for whatever reason; any mud is going to come in UKIPs direction more likely than not. All we need do as a party is keep repeating the Mantra "Yes, but that's already UKIP policy"