National Industries should they be re-nationalised

mkpdavies · 28-01-2005, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Effect on the nation in terms of resource risk and control in time of trouble

That ones a key issue to me. Some things deserve more importance placed on them than just pure profit.

Biscuitman · 28-01-2005, 10:31 PM

Re-nationalisation might be a bit difficult to organise, seeing as we have more public sector employees and a higher tax take than when nationalisation was at its peek under 'yer darlin' 'arold wilson'!

i could tell you horrendous stories of inefficiencies in the nationalised industries.. my old man used to run the fish and chip shop on the night shift in a works that built steam engines.

B.A.Ware · 28-01-2005, 10:42 PM

You’re showing your age Biscuitman. We all know that in them days they weren’t run efficiently but what about a modern streamlined national industry.

Paul Birch · 28-01-2005, 10:57 PM

I said "no", but I'd like to qualify that a little.

I think the railways ought to be renationalised and British Rail reformed. It should be operated for a few years as a publicly owned company, but in an open market under the same rules as any other company. All subsidies and service obligations should be scrapped, along with the regulators. After a few years it should be reprivatised and floated on the stockmarket as a single company. The current franchise holders should then be compensated with shares in the new BR corresponding to the equity they now hold in the services to be renationalised.

As things stand, the railways haven't really been privatised at all: the government says what services the companies have to run, how much they can charge, how much the companies have to invest, etc., etc.. That's about as close to a free market as the Sahara Desert is to Picadilly Circus.

Biscuitman · 28-01-2005, 11:00 PM

Here's a story for you about the Blessed Saint Margaret!

British rail needed to replace virtually all its track.

Under the 'loadsamoney' regime had to be put out to tender.

China came in with the lowest bid.

Maggie bought from China.

Result:-

Final nail in british Steels coffin and we ended up with cheap s**** for our track which, surprise surprise twenty years later started falling to bits.

its a cracker!!

Bluemerle · 28-01-2005, 11:29 PM

If industries are going to be nationalised, taxes will have to go up massively to pay for it.

Since the Government snatched the railways back, the costs have rocketed. This Government couldn't run a p**s up in a brewery.

B.A.Ware · 28-01-2005, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Birch

I said "no", but I'd like to qualify that a little.

I think the railways ought to be renationalised and British Rail reformed. It should be operated for a few years as a publicly owned company, but in an open market under the same rules as any other company. All subsidies and service obligations should be scrapped, along with the regulators. After a few years it should be reprivatised and floated on the stockmarket as a single company. The current franchise holders should then be compensated with shares in the new BR corresponding to the equity they now hold in the services to be renationalised.

So what you’re advocating is we renationalise the railways turn them around with public money and then give them back to the private sector. If we could turn around the railways why should we give away a business that can bring money back to the public purse.

Anthony Butcher · 29-01-2005, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluemerle

If industries are going to be nationalised, taxes will have to go up massively to pay for it.

We actually pay a lot more for all of the PFI projects, the rail services and so on now, as I understand it. Not only are the companies running them often incompetent, they concentrate on short term profit over long term sustainability, and we always foot the bill when things go wrong.

Part of the fundamental principle of privatisation is that the private sector absorbs the risks and losses. In Britain, the government takes all the risks, and the private sector takes all the profit. Hence we are paying exactly what it would have cost before plus a margin of profit on top, for worse services and considerable financial risk.

Even the telecoms industry, which is supposedly the success story has seen BT dragging its feet about installing broadband across the country, to maximise its own profits. That is what companies do, so we can't blame them.

Astral Dancer · 29-01-2005, 01:38 AM

Not wishing to appear racist, the Germans own British Gas, the AA, water companies and many large companies and utilities, the French South West Water etc etc. England sold by the pound !!! Nationalise the utilites they have us by the b***s

Anthony Butcher · 29-01-2005, 01:39 AM

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...460643,00.html

Quote:

RAIL passengers face fare increases of more than 15 per cent above inflation by the end of the decade as the Government tries to cut the soaring subsidy bill for running the railways.

The Strategic Rail Authority (SRA) is quietly sounding out train companies about the consequences of substantial fare increases. The shortlisted bidders for the giant “Integrated Kent” franchise have been ordered to consider “a fares regime that allows tickets to be priced at RPI [inflation] plus 3 per cent for the first five years of the franchise”.

The bidders for the lucrative East Coast franchise, one of the few to pay a premium to the SRA rather than receive a subsidy, have been told that they will need to pay up to £100 million a year to secure the contract.

The franchise paid a premium of only £25 million last year and fares are likely to rise sharply to help to make up the extra £75 million.

The Rail Passengers Council (RPC) has previously argued strongly that fares should not rise above inflation until there are big improvements in punctuality. Almost one in five trains ran late last year. But even the RPC has begun to acknowledge that rail fares will have to rise to reduce the burden on the taxpayer.

The taxpayer will contribute £5 billion to the railways this year, or more than £200 for every household. Subsidy has more than tripled in real terms since British Rail was privatised ten years ago.

View Poll Results: Should the National Industries be re-nationalised
Yes	3	13.64%
No	11	50.00%
Depends on the industry	8	36.36%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

28-01-2005, 10:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,486	Re-nationalisation might be a bit difficult to organise, seeing as we have more public sector employees and a higher tax take than when nationalisation was at its peek under 'yer darlin' 'arold wilson'! i could tell you horrendous stories of inefficiencies in the nationalised industries.. my old man used to run the fish and chip shop on the night shift in a works that built steam engines. __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

28-01-2005, 11:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,486	Here's a story for you about the Blessed Saint Margaret! British rail needed to replace virtually all its track. Under the 'loadsamoney' regime had to be put out to tender. China came in with the lowest bid. Maggie bought from China. Result:- Final nail in british Steels coffin and we ended up with cheap s**** for our track which, surprise surprise twenty years later started falling to bits. its a cracker!! __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

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28-01-2005, 10:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
B.A.Ware Moderator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Birmingham Posts: 4,499 Party: UKIP	You’re showing your age Biscuitman. We all know that in them days they weren’t run efficiently but what about a modern streamlined national industry.

28-01-2005, 10:57 PM	#14 (permalink)
Paul Birch Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cowes Posts: 1,272	I said "no", but I'd like to qualify that a little. I think the railways ought to be renationalised and British Rail reformed. It should be operated for a few years as a publicly owned company, but in an open market under the same rules as any other company. All subsidies and service obligations should be scrapped, along with the regulators. After a few years it should be reprivatised and floated on the stockmarket as a single company. The current franchise holders should then be compensated with shares in the new BR corresponding to the equity they now hold in the services to be renationalised. As things stand, the railways haven't really been privatised at all: the government says what services the companies have to run, how much they can charge, how much the companies have to invest, etc., etc.. That's about as close to a free market as the Sahara Desert is to Picadilly Circus.

28-01-2005, 11:29 PM	#16 (permalink)
Bluemerle Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dorset. Posts: 3,252	If industries are going to be nationalised, taxes will have to go up massively to pay for it. Since the Government snatched the railways back, the costs have rocketed. This Government couldn't run a p**s up in a brewery.

29-01-2005, 01:38 AM	#19 (permalink)
Astral Dancer Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 34	Not wishing to appear racist, the Germans own British Gas, the AA, water companies and many large companies and utilities, the French South West Water etc etc. England sold by the pound !!! Nationalise the utilites they have us by the b***s