Pensions developements

Biscuitman · 20-01-2005, 04:36 PM

I know its' Austria but how does this idea grab you?

Study calls for pension cuts for the childless

20/Jan/05: AUSTRIA – An Austrian think-tank has called for pensions to be adjusted to the number of the pensioner’s children making the childless liable to cuts of up to 50% in their pension benefits.

The suggestion, which was made by Austria Perspectiv in its report Challenges of Demographic Change, provoked a heated response.

The report pinpoints the effects of the decrease of birth rates on the global and Austrian economies and proposes ways to cope with the issues, including assisting working mothers with kindergarten facilities, programming immigration and promoting economic growth.

The report describes state pensions as “an insurance against childlessness”. It claims that despite being the recipient of state benefits, families with children foot the bill for childless pensioners who have not faced the expenses of child rearing.

Referring to the head of the Munich-based Ifo Institute for Economic Research, the report says: “To Hans-Werner Sinn a [pension] reduction by half for the average pensioner without children seems advisable”.

Ifo confirmed to IPE that Sinn made the remark.

The suggestion has provoked mixed responses in Austria. Markus Beyrer, general secretary of the Federation of Austrian Industry, has said that the idea is “worth considering.”

But Austria’s Federal Economic Chamber has spoken of “punishment for the childless” who help finance the contributions of families with children.

And Renate Csörgits, vice president of the Austrian Federal Trade Unions Association (ÖGB) and chairman of its Women section, ÖGB-Frauen, issued a statement declaring: “ÖGB-Frauen categorically rejects the suggestion” and denouncing Beyrer’s response.

“There is no question of us punishing people without children,” Csörgits added. “Instead of advocating cuts in the pensions of childless people, Herr Beyrer should motivate employers to create corporate kindergartens.”

Austria only has kindergartens places for 9% of children aged under three, she said.

Austria Perspectiv was established in 2002 by the Austrian Federal Economic Chamber, the Federation of Austrian Industry and private enterprises.

mkpdavies · 20-01-2005, 04:41 PM

Utter rubbish in my mind. Discrimination of the worst kind.

Take that as a no vote from me.

Nigel Garage · 20-01-2005, 04:44 PM

Countries like Austria, with dramatically declining birth rates, need as much encouragement to have babies as possible.

Biscuitman · 20-01-2005, 04:44 PM

I might risk asking the wife if she wants to work on a bit of index linking tonight.

mkpdavies · 20-01-2005, 04:49 PM

If people don't want babies, they shouldn't be threatened with cash reductions in their old age to coerce them. Honestly this is sick, and the worst kind of state interference in an individuals lives. If the population is falling there, they should look at the reasons people are not having babies any more, not try and bully people INTO phpbb_having them.

If UKIP ever adopted such a policy I would leave.

Biscuitman · 20-01-2005, 05:12 PM

Steady on Matt...

It just shows the desperate measures that governments are willing to consider.

Although its an idea that the Catholic Church might like it has to be a non-starter.

Ironic we've had years of being told there are too many people in the world and we should have fewer children, they now find that we should have more.

There are three proposals:-

Quote:

including assisting working mothers with kindergarten facilities, programming immigration and promoting economic growth.

Immigration and economic growth I've already covered - 700m immigrants INTO phpbb_the EU by 2050, (if anybody doubts my figure I'll put up a link to the report) - and The Lisbon Agenda for the growth programme, neither of which will work.

But one of the Lisbon targets is 60% emloyment of women. this flys in the face of having more children unless it is made easier for working mums to 'park' their kids.

Hmmmmm, now how many creche places does Mr B-liar claim to have provided. But it would need the EU to extend maternity leave rights to encourage more working mums.... oh they just have haven't they!

The scenario is getting towards the plot of every other sci-fi movie... having breeder women who have child after child that are reared by the state until they are old enough to join the workforce.

Won't even need us men, pick out the strongest and most inteligent genes, create a sperm bank, women of child bearing age call in once a year for fertilisation with a turkey baster on their lunch break.

Genetic modification could even be used to reduce inheritable conditions, thus reducing future health care costs.

Clean clinical and terrifying.

I think an Austrian tried this once before. Wonder what ever became of him?

Nigel Garage · 20-01-2005, 05:22 PM

He's now governor of California.

mkpdavies · 20-01-2005, 05:24 PM

Quote:

I think an Austrian tried this once before. Wonder what ever became of him?

Exactly.

I am a bit warey of this need to grow all the time aswell. There are limits on everything, how can you grow anything indefinitely. Britain is already overcrowded, we really don't need to see our population increase all the time.

This whole idea of having the next generation pay for the current genrations retirement has to be addressed. It's like a pyramid scheme, getting ever increasing numbers of people in, sooner or later the whole thing collapses!

Biscuitman · 20-01-2005, 05:36 PM

Quote:

It's like a pyramid scheme

But those at the top of the pyramid never have a problem with them!

And thats why all these party clones are happy to go along with it all... they are climbing up the pyramid!

Biscuitman · 20-01-2005, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Countries like Austria, with dramatically declining birth rates, need as much encouragement to have babies as possible.

Prettier women and or uglier goats might help.

20-01-2005, 04:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,486	Pensions developements I know its' Austria but how does this idea grab you? Study calls for pension cuts for the childless 20/Jan/05: AUSTRIA – An Austrian think-tank has called for pensions to be adjusted to the number of the pensioner’s children making the childless liable to cuts of up to 50% in their pension benefits. The suggestion, which was made by Austria Perspectiv in its report Challenges of Demographic Change, provoked a heated response. The report pinpoints the effects of the decrease of birth rates on the global and Austrian economies and proposes ways to cope with the issues, including assisting working mothers with kindergarten facilities, programming immigration and promoting economic growth. The report describes state pensions as “an insurance against childlessness”. It claims that despite being the recipient of state benefits, families with children foot the bill for childless pensioners who have not faced the expenses of child rearing. Referring to the head of the Munich-based Ifo Institute for Economic Research, the report says: “To Hans-Werner Sinn a [pension] reduction by half for the average pensioner without children seems advisable”. Ifo confirmed to IPE that Sinn made the remark. The suggestion has provoked mixed responses in Austria. Markus Beyrer, general secretary of the Federation of Austrian Industry, has said that the idea is “worth considering.” But Austria’s Federal Economic Chamber has spoken of “punishment for the childless” who help finance the contributions of families with children. And Renate Csörgits, vice president of the Austrian Federal Trade Unions Association (ÖGB) and chairman of its Women section, ÖGB-Frauen, issued a statement declaring: “ÖGB-Frauen categorically rejects the suggestion” and denouncing Beyrer’s response. “There is no question of us punishing people without children,” Csörgits added. “Instead of advocating cuts in the pensions of childless people, Herr Beyrer should motivate employers to create corporate kindergartens.” Austria only has kindergartens places for 9% of children aged under three, she said. Austria Perspectiv was established in 2002 by the Austrian Federal Economic Chamber, the Federation of Austrian Industry and private enterprises. __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

20-01-2005, 04:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,832 Party: Libertarian Party	Utter rubbish in my mind. Discrimination of the worst kind. Take that as a no vote from me. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

20-01-2005, 04:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,486	I might risk asking the wife if she wants to work on a bit of index linking tonight. __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

20-01-2005, 04:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,832 Party: Libertarian Party	If people don't want babies, they shouldn't be threatened with cash reductions in their old age to coerce them. Honestly this is sick, and the worst kind of state interference in an individuals lives. If the population is falling there, they should look at the reasons people are not having babies any more, not try and bully people INTO phpbb_having them. If UKIP ever adopted such a policy I would leave. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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20-01-2005, 04:44 PM	#3 (permalink)
Nigel Garage Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ashford Posts: 557	Countries like Austria, with dramatically declining birth rates, need as much encouragement to have babies as possible.

20-01-2005, 05:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
Nigel Garage Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ashford Posts: 557	He's now governor of California.