Can I just say...

The Weatherman · 12-01-2005, 08:46 AM

I'm very surprised that there are so many users on this board!

I thought that UKIP were all elderly folk who didn't have computers, let alone use the interweb thingy..!

mkpdavies · 12-01-2005, 08:54 AM

The wise old heads may have been first to spot the danger, but the rest of us are arriving in ever increasing numbers. Britain is waking up and does not like what it sees happening. There is a big influx from the young professional classes and more and more youngsters, housewifes, police, ministers, and every over section of society, are realising UKIP is the only party to represent their views.

UKIP has an ever growing core of loyal support. The question is no longer if UKIP will get massive numbers of seats, but when! The sooner UKIP do REALLY well, the less painful it will be for all of us!

The Weatherman · 12-01-2005, 09:46 AM

I presume this is made up of tradionally former Tory voters?

Although not a UKIP voter myself, I could see the attraction of saying no to Europe, keep the pound campaigns.

Although I find it hard to understand how a group such as UKIP and their ideologies are not a million miles apart from the Tories would take votes off them, allowing Labour to win again!

Surely they are less of the two evils?

Carl Faulkner · 12-01-2005, 10:00 AM

....
the Tories are finished...but like the ex-champion boxer, they don't (or won't) accept their glory days are over.

If only three parties were allowed by law your argument would be valid. However, if things are to improve in this country, a new force must emerge to challenge the way in which successive parties have ruled this country since the 60s.

Will it be UKIP? Only time will tell. One thing for sure is that this country needs a fresh approach which won't happen with the old parties.

mkpdavies · 12-01-2005, 10:07 AM

While it is true the party grew from from Tory roots, the party has changed over time to see people from all walks of life join. Personally I voted Labour, until we had 1 term of Bliar and I was all over the place. I looked at the parties and couldn't for the life of me see any difference. I stumbled on the UKIP website and was amazed at the libertarian nature of the party, but with a firm policy on criminals, and realising the need to maintain a strong military, while only using them when necessary. Of course the main reason I even looked at the UKIP site, was due to Britain handing over more and more controls and money to a corrupt EU.

The owner of this site came from a lib-dem background, we also are picking a lot of people who have never even voted before. To say we are similiar to the Conservatives is no longer true. For one we are a party less interested in our own careers within politics, but here with a real purpose to stop Britain being deleted from the planet.

Even on policy we are now light years away from the Tories. Here are the main examples.

Tories want to stay in the EU and "reform" it from the inside. UKIP say that is impossible, as our ever shrinking voice gets shouted down, in the undemocratic EU system.

The Tories backed Tony Blair whole heartedly on attacking Iraq. UKIP did not believe the case was made to put our troops in danger. There was a rush too war that was obvious to everyone, the fact there was no real planning for what would happen afterwards is a discgrace. The Tories let the nation down by proving to be ineffective opposition.

ID cards, the tool of dictators and nanny states. Most Tories don't believe in them, yet the Tory leadership FORCED it's members INTO phpbb_supporting them. They don't work, will cost a fortune and could be abused in the future. Another disgusting let down by the Tories!

So you see, the Tories are not the lesser of two evils. They could be considered even more evil, as they are a wolf in sheeps clothing. No party has given away more power to the EU than the Tories. They do not repreesent their membership and a full ticket holders on the gravy train!

This country needs a radical change. It happens once in a while, and UKIP are the only real alternative to surrender to a EU nanny-state, that will milk Britain for all it's worth. It already has to an extent, but they want more!

Bobby-Veritas's Boy · 12-01-2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

While it is true the party grew from from Tory roots, the party has changed over time to see people from all walks of life join. Personally I voted Labour, until we had 1 term of Bliar and I was all over the place. I looked at the parties and couldn't for the life of me see any difference. I stumbled on the UKIP website and was amazed at the libertarian nature of the party, but firm policy on criminals, and relaising the need to maintain a strong military, while only using them when necessary. Of course the main reaason I even looked at the UKIP site, was due to Britain handing over more and more controls and money to a corrupt EU.

I had always thought UKIP was the home for right wing tories, whereas I'm sure there some about still, the trend seems to be moving away. I'm a former Labour Party member and I've joined! Not too sure about one oe two of them though, they tend to disagree with me at times, hopefully it'll get better after February 18th

The own of this site came from a lib-dem background, we also are picking a lot of people who have never even voted before. To say we are similiar to the Conservatives is no longer true. For one we are a party less interested in our own careers within politics, but here with a real purpose to stop Britain being deleted from the planet.

Even on policy we are now light years away from the Tories. Here are the main examples.

Tories want to stay in the EU and "reform" it from the inside. UKIP say that is impossible, as our ever shringing voice gets shouted down, in the undemocratic EU system.

The Tories backed Tony Blair whole heartedly on attacking Iraq. UKIP did not believe the case was made to put our troops in danger. There was a rush too war that was obvious to everyone, the fact there was no real planning for what would happen afterwards is a discgrace. The Tories let the nation down by proving to be ineffective opposition.

ID cards, the tool of dictators and nanny states. Most Tories don't believe in them, yet the Tory leadership FORCED it's members INTO phpbb_supporting them. They don't work, will cost a fortune and could be abused in the future. Another disgusting let down by the Tories!

So you see, the Tories are not the lesser of two evils. They could be considered even more evil, as they are a wolf in sheeps clothing. No party has given away more power to the EU than the Tories. They do not repreesent their membership and a full ticket holders on the gravy train!

This country needs a radical change. It happens once in a while, and UKIP are the only real alternative to surrender to a EU nanny-state, that will milk Britain for all it's worth. It already has to an extent, but they want more!

Bluemerle · 12-01-2005, 10:37 AM

Good post mkpdavies. Couldn't agree more.

I have always voted Tory except in the last two Euro Elections. I do not trust the Tories any more than I trust Bliar. Most of my friends are Tory and I am working my socks off to try and get them to wake up.

One problem is that only Westminster can stop the rot, and none of the present incumbants will do anything about it. They think the EU is essential, mainly I think to support their own lifestyles and pensions.

I had a long interview and discussion with my MP in July. He says he is Eurosceptic. I told him he would be destroyed unless he came to an accommodation with UKIP. He told me he likes the single market. I told him we do not need to be in the EU to trade, and it was the fault of the Tories that we are in the present mess.

If we do let BLiar in again, and the Tories lose big time, they will have to come to their senses. In fact a lot of politicians will have to wake up on all sides of the House. They will have to realise that the voters do not want to be tied in to a political EU and come together to form a new party, based on, if not called UKIP.

PS What happens on February 18th?

The Weatherman · 12-01-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

While it is true the party grew from from Tory roots, the party has changed over time to see people from all walks of life join. Personally I voted Labour, until we had 1 term of Bliar and I was all over the place. I looked at the parties and couldn't for the life of me see any difference. I stumbled on the UKIP website and was amazed at the libertarian nature of the party, but with a firm policy on criminals, and realising the need to maintain a strong military, while only using them when necessary. Of course the main reason I even looked at the UKIP site, was due to Britain handing over more and more controls and money to a corrupt EU.

The owner of this site came from a lib-dem background, we also are picking a lot of people who have never even voted before. To say we are similiar to the Conservatives is no longer true. For one we are a party less interested in our own careers within politics, but here with a real purpose to stop Britain being deleted from the planet.

Even on policy we are now light years away from the Tories. Here are the main examples.

Tories want to stay in the EU and "reform" it from the inside. UKIP say that is impossible, as our ever shrinking voice gets shouted down, in the undemocratic EU system.

The Tories backed Tony Blair whole heartedly on attacking Iraq. UKIP did not believe the case was made to put our troops in danger. There was a rush too war that was obvious to everyone, the fact there was no real planning for what would happen afterwards is a discgrace. The Tories let the nation down by proving to be ineffective opposition.

ID cards, the tool of dictators and nanny states. Most Tories don't believe in them, yet the Tory leadership FORCED it's members INTO phpbb_supporting them. They don't work, will cost a fortune and could be abused in the future. Another disgusting let down by the Tories!

So you see, the Tories are not the lesser of two evils. They could be considered even more evil, as they are a wolf in sheeps clothing. No party has given away more power to the EU than the Tories. They do not repreesent their membership and a full ticket holders on the gravy train!

This country needs a radical change. It happens once in a while, and UKIP are the only real alternative to surrender to a EU nanny-state, that will milk Britain for all it's worth. It already has to an extent, but they want more!

While I can the differences between the parties on some issues, few would disagree that UKIP are a right-wing party.

At the moment people are voting for the 'alternative' parties... Whether the BNP getting more seats via the same method as UKIP is a good thing for the political spectrum is yet to be seen.

Although if the Tories adopted a tougher stance on Europe, say, would this persuade you to vote Tory.

Admirable to give people another 'option' as such, although even the Lib Dems have taken about 15 years to get where they are now (ie still 3rd) would the general membership of UKIP be prepared to take possibly longer? Is there a 15-20 year plan?

mkpdavies · 12-01-2005, 12:31 PM

Code:

While I can the differences between the parties on some issues, few would disagree that UKIP are a right-wing party.

I totally refute that suggestion and I think anyone who has looked INTO phpbb_UKIP properly and didn't rely soley on "news"papers would too. You will have to give me a definition of what right and left is now anyway. Labour are the most right wing party of all in some respects (war, ID, etc)!

Quote:

At the moment people are voting for the 'alternative' parties... Whether the BNP getting more seats via the same method as UKIP is a good thing for the political spectrum is yet to be seen.

If you want a party that will put whites at the top of the agenda, then there is the BNP choice. Thankfully the British people showed what they really think of the BNP, when they returned 0 MEPS and that was using proportional representation.

Quote:

Although if the Tories adopted a tougher stance on Europe, say, would this persuade you to vote Tory.

I may have gone past the point of no return now. But if the Tories promised in their manifesto, that immediete withdrawal and scrapping of the ID card scheme would happen, I think people would have to think long and hard about going for a quick win!

The fact is this is not going to happen, as the Tories are so entrenched in the EU gravy train system. This could well be the last election we see the Tories in their current form!

Quote:

would the general membership of UKIP be prepared to take possibly longer? Is there a 15-20 year plan?

The longer it goes on, the harder and more painful it will be. Personaly I have drawn a line in the sand with the Euro. The day the UK accepts it, is the day we have lost, and New Zealand will have an immigrant application form on it's way.

The good news is I don't believe the British people will ever surrender in this way! We have a history of seeing bad things and acting in the nick of time!

Julian Morrison · 12-01-2005, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Weatherman

I presume this is made up of tradionally former Tory voters?

Nope. Myself I'm a libertarian, with a preference for anarchy (extrapolate "less government is better" through the zero). I'd normally not vote. Certainly not for authoritarian, moralising, me-too socialist, gun-banning, no-convictions, sleazy Tories! I'm considering voting UKIP as an unusual measure because I think they'll do so much good that it would at the moment outweigh the inevitable bad of having a state at all.

So, no. Young guy here (28), technical (computer pro) and by no means a "lost vote for the Tories".

12-01-2005, 08:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
The Weatherman Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 37	Can I just say... I'm very surprised that there are so many users on this board! I thought that UKIP were all elderly folk who didn't have computers, let alone use the interweb thingy..!

12-01-2005, 08:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	The wise old heads may have been first to spot the danger, but the rest of us are arriving in ever increasing numbers. Britain is waking up and does not like what it sees happening. There is a big influx from the young professional classes and more and more youngsters, housewifes, police, ministers, and every over section of society, are realising UKIP is the only party to represent their views. UKIP has an ever growing core of loyal support. The question is no longer if UKIP will get massive numbers of seats, but when! The sooner UKIP do REALLY well, the less painful it will be for all of us! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

12-01-2005, 10:07 AM	#5 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	While it is true the party grew from from Tory roots, the party has changed over time to see people from all walks of life join. Personally I voted Labour, until we had 1 term of Bliar and I was all over the place. I looked at the parties and couldn't for the life of me see any difference. I stumbled on the UKIP website and was amazed at the libertarian nature of the party, but with a firm policy on criminals, and realising the need to maintain a strong military, while only using them when necessary. Of course the main reason I even looked at the UKIP site, was due to Britain handing over more and more controls and money to a corrupt EU. The owner of this site came from a lib-dem background, we also are picking a lot of people who have never even voted before. To say we are similiar to the Conservatives is no longer true. For one we are a party less interested in our own careers within politics, but here with a real purpose to stop Britain being deleted from the planet. Even on policy we are now light years away from the Tories. Here are the main examples. Tories want to stay in the EU and "reform" it from the inside. UKIP say that is impossible, as our ever shrinking voice gets shouted down, in the undemocratic EU system. The Tories backed Tony Blair whole heartedly on attacking Iraq. UKIP did not believe the case was made to put our troops in danger. There was a rush too war that was obvious to everyone, the fact there was no real planning for what would happen afterwards is a discgrace. The Tories let the nation down by proving to be ineffective opposition. ID cards, the tool of dictators and nanny states. Most Tories don't believe in them, yet the Tory leadership FORCED it's members INTO phpbb_supporting them. They don't work, will cost a fortune and could be abused in the future. Another disgusting let down by the Tories! So you see, the Tories are not the lesser of two evils. They could be considered even more evil, as they are a wolf in sheeps clothing. No party has given away more power to the EU than the Tories. They do not repreesent their membership and a full ticket holders on the gravy train! This country needs a radical change. It happens once in a while, and UKIP are the only real alternative to surrender to a EU nanny-state, that will milk Britain for all it's worth. It already has to an extent, but they want more! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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12-01-2005, 09:46 AM	#3 (permalink)
The Weatherman Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 37	I presume this is made up of tradionally former Tory voters? Although not a UKIP voter myself, I could see the attraction of saying no to Europe, keep the pound campaigns. Although I find it hard to understand how a group such as UKIP and their ideologies are not a million miles apart from the Tories would take votes off them, allowing Labour to win again! Surely they are less of the two evils?

12-01-2005, 10:00 AM	#4 (permalink)
Carl Faulkner Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 352	.... the Tories are finished...but like the ex-champion boxer, they don't (or won't) accept their glory days are over. If only three parties were allowed by law your argument would be valid. However, if things are to improve in this country, a new force must emerge to challenge the way in which successive parties have ruled this country since the 60s. Will it be UKIP? Only time will tell. One thing for sure is that this country needs a fresh approach which won't happen with the old parties.

12-01-2005, 10:37 AM	#7 (permalink)
Bluemerle Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Dorset. Posts: 3,248	Good post mkpdavies. Couldn't agree more. I have always voted Tory except in the last two Euro Elections. I do not trust the Tories any more than I trust Bliar. Most of my friends are Tory and I am working my socks off to try and get them to wake up. One problem is that only Westminster can stop the rot, and none of the present incumbants will do anything about it. They think the EU is essential, mainly I think to support their own lifestyles and pensions. I had a long interview and discussion with my MP in July. He says he is Eurosceptic. I told him he would be destroyed unless he came to an accommodation with UKIP. He told me he likes the single market. I told him we do not need to be in the EU to trade, and it was the fault of the Tories that we are in the present mess. If we do let BLiar in again, and the Tories lose big time, they will have to come to their senses. In fact a lot of politicians will have to wake up on all sides of the House. They will have to realise that the voters do not want to be tied in to a political EU and come together to form a new party, based on, if not called UKIP. PS What happens on February 18th?