Can I just say...

mkpdavies · 13-01-2005, 11:10 AM

No doubt, but the good thing about UKIP, is in my experience, the rank and file have very little time for such rubbish.

UKIP has a clear message, do you want Britain to stay in control of its own destiny? If so then we are the party to vote for, and we have a whole rafter of policies on how we will make Britain fairer, when we have control back! Starting with stopping the UK becoming a nanny state, where it's people are treated like property of the government.

The Weatherman · 13-01-2005, 11:24 AM

OK, but what if (under any government) the people won the Euro and Constitution referendums / referenda would that appease you? Or is it complete withdrawal that might hinder our existing trade agreements?

I'm very anti-european, although very sceptical about how much damage we would create by pulling out.

Wouldn't renegotiation be a better road to go down?

mkpdavies · 13-01-2005, 11:36 AM

I am pro-European, anti-EU. Renegotiation is a non-starter! The EU mechanism just does not allow it. All vetos are being stripped away and sooner or later Majority voting will mean Britain has no say, as it is asset stripped to fund the rest of the EU.

Britain has already been conned INTO phpbb_the EU this far. I don't see those tactics changing, as we sleepwalk INTO phpbb_a United States of Europe. I hate to think the scaremongering that awaits us when we get these votes.

As for being worried about damaging trade, UKIP have been clear, that we would do all we can to keep all trade related benefits, to both the EU and the U.K. in place. If the EU wants to get nasty about it, out of spite, do you really want anything to do with it? I know I don't! I am confident, as one of the EU's best customers and suppliers, they will see sense and work with us.

The Weatherman · 13-01-2005, 11:49 AM

Whats pro european, but anti EU when its at home?

If the constitution goes through, then we lose our veto. We still hold our main vetos, and can use them.

I personally would prefer to be part of America (if it came down to choosing between the two) although you can't ignore the amount of trade we do have with the EU!

Anthony Butcher · 13-01-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Whats pro european, but anti EU when its at home?

The EU is not Europe. The EU is an unaccountable, undemocratic bureaucracy. Europe is a collection of nations who are our friends, allies and trading partners.

I am pro-Europe, but anti-EU.

The Weatherman · 13-01-2005, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony Butcher

Quote:

Whats pro european, but anti EU when its at home?

The EU is not Europe. The EU is an unaccountable, undemocratic bureaucracy. Europe is a collection of nations who are our friends, allies and trading partners.

I am pro-Europe, but anti-EU.

Sorry, ballbag and tit. To coin a phrase.

Since when has Germany, France, Italy et al been our 'allies' or 'friends'? Most europeans hate us, and view us as a cash cow for the rest of them.

I hold a European passport, and thats as far as it goes. We are so unlike the rest of Europe it is untrue. The 'continental' way of life just isn't British!

mkpdavies · 13-01-2005, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Whats pro european, but anti EU when its at home?

I love the diversity that Europe has and many nations withing Europe are good friends of Britain. I enjoy visiting every country in Europe and want Britain to be friends with European nations. As long as we all trade freely, co-operate on major issues when neccesary and promote freedom and democracy, then Europe would be great.

Trying to shoehorn all these different cultures and ways of life INTO phpbb_a one size fits all EU superstate is a horrible idea. I want Britain out first and foremost, as this is the land that is my home, and I feel a duty to all those that helped make it what it is over time. If the European people really want to become a nanny state, ruled by an untouchable political elite, hell-bent on rivaling the USA, then that is there choice. I suspect they are being conned just like us though!

Hence I would like nothing more than the EU to collapse soon, as it will be a lot more painful if left to go on too long. I hope the other EU nations don't suffer, as we will all suffer if the EU decends INTO phpbb_chaos!

Quote:

I personally would prefer to be part of America (if it came down to choosing between the two) although you can't ignore the amount of trade we do have with the EU!

I would be just against joining America as I am the EU. The U.K. Independence Party, really does what it says on the tin. It really bugs me though that this has not even been discussed as an option. The USA would welcome Britain with open arms.

Too many polititians have their careers and life-work tied INTO phpbb_the EU project. They will desperately try and push it through, for their own benefit and because they can't let their baby die.

The Tories are the most guilty of all, as they try to paint a face of Eurosceptism, while going along with the whole damn thing while in power.

The Weatherman · 13-01-2005, 12:20 PM

I refer to my post before yours...

YOU may want to be frineds with us, but which Europeans want to (or have been) friendly to us??? :?

mkpdavies · 13-01-2005, 12:29 PM

Loads of EU countries admire and respect us and we have some friends too.

Just because we haven't always seen eye to eye, doesn't mean we shouldn't extend the hand of friendship though.

Getting INTO phpbb_bed with each other though, that is another matter! We are quite capabable of running things ourselves than you. So for me you can keep your EU, we weren't asked and we don't want it!

Anthony Butcher · 13-01-2005, 12:37 PM

Quote:

I hold a European passport, and thats as far as it goes.

Sorry to be pedantic, but you hold a European Union passport. Norway, Switzerland and Iceland aren't members of the EU, so it is necessary to be more precise.

Quote:

We are so unlike the rest of Europe it is untrue.

I don't see that at all. Having visited most countries in Europe, I can honestly say that I don't see any any great differences.

13-01-2005, 11:10 AM	#21 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	No doubt, but the good thing about UKIP, is in my experience, the rank and file have very little time for such rubbish. UKIP has a clear message, do you want Britain to stay in control of its own destiny? If so then we are the party to vote for, and we have a whole rafter of policies on how we will make Britain fairer, when we have control back! Starting with stopping the UK becoming a nanny state, where it's people are treated like property of the government. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

13-01-2005, 11:36 AM	#23 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	I am pro-European, anti-EU. Renegotiation is a non-starter! The EU mechanism just does not allow it. All vetos are being stripped away and sooner or later Majority voting will mean Britain has no say, as it is asset stripped to fund the rest of the EU. Britain has already been conned INTO phpbb_the EU this far. I don't see those tactics changing, as we sleepwalk INTO phpbb_a United States of Europe. I hate to think the scaremongering that awaits us when we get these votes. As for being worried about damaging trade, UKIP have been clear, that we would do all we can to keep all trade related benefits, to both the EU and the U.K. in place. If the EU wants to get nasty about it, out of spite, do you really want anything to do with it? I know I don't! I am confident, as one of the EU's best customers and suppliers, they will see sense and work with us. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

13-01-2005, 12:29 PM	#29 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Loads of EU countries admire and respect us and we have some friends too. Just because we haven't always seen eye to eye, doesn't mean we shouldn't extend the hand of friendship though. Getting INTO phpbb_bed with each other though, that is another matter! We are quite capabable of running things ourselves than you. So for me you can keep your EU, we weren't asked and we don't want it! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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13-01-2005, 11:24 AM	#22 (permalink)
The Weatherman Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 37	OK, but what if (under any government) the people won the Euro and Constitution referendums / referenda would that appease you? Or is it complete withdrawal that might hinder our existing trade agreements? I'm very anti-european, although very sceptical about how much damage we would create by pulling out. Wouldn't renegotiation be a better road to go down?

13-01-2005, 11:49 AM	#24 (permalink)
The Weatherman Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 37	Whats pro european, but anti EU when its at home? If the constitution goes through, then we lose our veto. We still hold our main vetos, and can use them. I personally would prefer to be part of America (if it came down to choosing between the two) although you can't ignore the amount of trade we do have with the EU!

13-01-2005, 12:20 PM	#28 (permalink)
The Weatherman Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 37	I refer to my post before yours... YOU may want to be frineds with us, but which Europeans want to (or have been) friendly to us??? :?