Guiding principles

Terry · 06-01-2005, 11:28 PM

Here are some basic principles for a political party :

1 Withdrawal from the EU so that all decisions concerning this nation are taken by this nation.

2 Reduction of bureaucracy and wasteful public expenditure; it should actually be seen as wrong to waste public money

3 Support for traditional morality and social structures which promote it e.g. marriage. heterosexuality.

4 A concern for the deserving poor and needy who cannot help themselves.

Is this UKIP?

I suspect that most people on this forum would support days would support 1,2 and 4, but 3 is the one which the modern consensus shies away from. I would like to know where readers of this stand. How about answering the poll question?!

mkpdavies · 07-01-2005, 07:15 AM

I am a married hetrosexual man, but I don't think UKIP need to promote that side of things. It just isn't a political parties place to promote lifestyle choices for me. I didn't need people telling me how to live my life and I would hope the same would go for everyone. It's hardly a decision a person would come to without real thought!

I guess it fits in with my general view, that I don't want to see discrimnation in any form.

UKIP MAN · 07-01-2005, 07:54 AM

As a person not generaly invoved in politics, I say live and let live as long as it dosn't encroach on my life, or interfere.

I used to watch the BILL but Im giving it a miss now (on/off switch)(change channel) (etc)......

If you watch the bill you know what I mean..

Why teach 12 year old boys about Homosexuality As is being done in schools?

putting in their mind, if their not with a girl they must be the other way inclined.

12 year old boys should be thinking of sports, games, and growing up.

These are "my views" not the views of the UKIP.

social observer · 24-01-2005, 12:21 PM

I agree with UKIP man, kids are under far too much pressure to grow up, from the media, curriculum, and their mates. Society pressures them INTO phpbb_lifestyle decisions and pathways when they've not even realised that sex is not a competitive sport.

Oddly enough, society tries to force them to grow up, but then when kids try to express themselves or find a voice they are ignored, no wonder a lot of them think us grown ups are hypocrites.

Anthony Butcher · 24-01-2005, 12:37 PM

I am not sure that governments should be promoting or demoting any particular lifestyle, unless it directly encroaches on the liberty of other members of society.

Nick Moody · 24-01-2005, 02:02 PM

The trouble is other pressure groups will try to foist their opinions onto society and may triumph simply because gov't did nothing. How do we sit with that one.

Terry · 24-01-2005, 08:14 PM

Nick Moody highlights part of the problem when he writes: "The trouble is other pressure groups will try to foist their opinions onto society and may triumph simply because gov't did nothing. How do we sit with that one."

Live and let live is ceasing to be a viable option because of what other people are doing. Due out of Europe possibly this year is a nice sounding law about imposing equality in the provision of goods and services. Something like this law has been used in Canada to fine an individual who ran a printing company and who refused to print leaflets on a particular subject which ran contrary to his own personal convictions.

So doing nothing is not an option and, actually, Europe itself is not the fundamental issue (although in principle I think it is right for each nation to take its own decisions, not to have them taken for it by another supra-national body). The real point is that Europe is promoting a liberal/secular/socialist/state-control ideology, and the Uk has to decide if this is what it wants. There is not that much point in getting out of Europe unless the UK also repudiates the whole PC thing that Europe is embracing and which the modern ideological left has been promoting.

The gap in the market as I see it is for a right-wing anti-Europe anti-PC and traditional morality party. Again, I ask myself and UK members, is this UKIP? I don't know the answer to this question.

mkpdavies · 25-01-2005, 02:51 AM

I'd rather UKIP concentrate on fixing the wrongs, than create more wrongs to balance it out.

You know the saying.

Julian Morrison · 25-01-2005, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry

Live and let live is ceasing to be a viable option because of what other people are doing.

If other people are wielding power to impose their (im)morality on you, rather than pushing back in kind, it would be more effective to remove the power to impose. More likely also to result in a stable truce rather than a polarized angry debate and the eternal chance of catastrophe in the next election.

Telford Liberal · 26-01-2005, 08:15 PM

No party should promote or regulate personal morality. Look what happened to Major when he tried his "Back To Basics" campaign in the 90s.

Everyone has the right to whichever sexuality they wish, as long as it doesn`t harm anyone else.

View Poll Results: Should UKIP promote traditional morality such as marriage and heterosexuality?
Yes	13	44.83%
No	16	55.17%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

06-01-2005, 11:28 PM	#1 (permalink)
Terry Newbie Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Coventry Posts: 3	Guiding principles Here are some basic principles for a political party : 1 Withdrawal from the EU so that all decisions concerning this nation are taken by this nation. 2 Reduction of bureaucracy and wasteful public expenditure; it should actually be seen as wrong to waste public money 3 Support for traditional morality and social structures which promote it e.g. marriage. heterosexuality. 4 A concern for the deserving poor and needy who cannot help themselves. Is this UKIP? I suspect that most people on this forum would support days would support 1,2 and 4, but 3 is the one which the modern consensus shies away from. I would like to know where readers of this stand. How about answering the poll question?!

07-01-2005, 07:15 AM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	I am a married hetrosexual man, but I don't think UKIP need to promote that side of things. It just isn't a political parties place to promote lifestyle choices for me. I didn't need people telling me how to live my life and I would hope the same would go for everyone. It's hardly a decision a person would come to without real thought! I guess it fits in with my general view, that I don't want to see discrimnation in any form. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

24-01-2005, 12:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
social observer Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cambs/Norfolk Border Posts: 290	I agree with UKIP man, kids are under far too much pressure to grow up, from the media, curriculum, and their mates. Society pressures them INTO phpbb_lifestyle decisions and pathways when they've not even realised that sex is not a competitive sport. Oddly enough, society tries to force them to grow up, but then when kids try to express themselves or find a voice they are ignored, no wonder a lot of them think us grown ups are hypocrites. __________________ If you don\'t like what I think, attack the opinion with Logic and reason, don\'t attack the opinion holder!

25-01-2005, 02:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	I'd rather UKIP concentrate on fixing the wrongs, than create more wrongs to balance it out. You know the saying. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

07-01-2005, 07:54 AM	#3 (permalink)
UKIP MAN Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,898	As a person not generaly invoved in politics, I say live and let live as long as it dosn't encroach on my life, or interfere. I used to watch the BILL but Im giving it a miss now (on/off switch)(change channel) (etc)...... If you watch the bill you know what I mean.. Why teach 12 year old boys about Homosexuality As is being done in schools? putting in their mind, if their not with a girl they must be the other way inclined. 12 year old boys should be thinking of sports, games, and growing up. These are "my views" not the views of the UKIP.

24-01-2005, 12:37 PM	#5 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,152 Party: None	I am not sure that governments should be promoting or demoting any particular lifestyle, unless it directly encroaches on the liberty of other members of society.

24-01-2005, 02:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
Nick Moody Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 100	The trouble is other pressure groups will try to foist their opinions onto society and may triumph simply because gov't did nothing. How do we sit with that one.

24-01-2005, 08:14 PM	#7 (permalink)
Terry Newbie Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Coventry Posts: 3	Nick Moody highlights part of the problem when he writes: "The trouble is other pressure groups will try to foist their opinions onto society and may triumph simply because gov't did nothing. How do we sit with that one." Live and let live is ceasing to be a viable option because of what other people are doing. Due out of Europe possibly this year is a nice sounding law about imposing equality in the provision of goods and services. Something like this law has been used in Canada to fine an individual who ran a printing company and who refused to print leaflets on a particular subject which ran contrary to his own personal convictions. So doing nothing is not an option and, actually, Europe itself is not the fundamental issue (although in principle I think it is right for each nation to take its own decisions, not to have them taken for it by another supra-national body). The real point is that Europe is promoting a liberal/secular/socialist/state-control ideology, and the Uk has to decide if this is what it wants. There is not that much point in getting out of Europe unless the UK also repudiates the whole PC thing that Europe is embracing and which the modern ideological left has been promoting. The gap in the market as I see it is for a right-wing anti-Europe anti-PC and traditional morality party. Again, I ask myself and UK members, is this UKIP? I don't know the answer to this question.

26-01-2005, 08:15 PM	#10 (permalink)
Telford Liberal Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Telford, Shropshire Posts: 34	No party should promote or regulate personal morality. Look what happened to Major when he tried his "Back To Basics" campaign in the 90s. Everyone has the right to whichever sexuality they wish, as long as it doesn`t harm anyone else. __________________ Radical Centre, not dead centre

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