YouGov survey

algypug · 10-12-2004, 08:48 AM

The YouGov survey in this mornings press states that 75% of BRITONS consider there to be too much immigration. It goes on to say, that there may well be a political dividend to be gained for any party taking a robust line on immigration. We all know our stance on immigration, but i feel that massive emphasis should be placed on this subject in both the General Election campaign, and the manifesto (if we ever get one).
What are everyone else's thoughts on this ?

mkpdavies · 10-12-2004, 09:01 AM

I think we have played it about right so far. People know we are for a much more controlled approach to immigration, and we have been attacked for that by others. I am glad we held our ground as it is a big issue for people, and we should continue to make it clear that we can't have an open borders policy wanted by the EU.

Tom Wilde · 10-12-2004, 10:32 AM

It's a trap.

As a party, we've been brought together by our desire to bring Britain out of the EU. This is a hugely popular aim which is why we have the other parties worried. They don't want to debate the rights and wrongs with us, as they know we're on strong ground. Therefore they would rather just smear us and dismiss us. The easiest way to do that is to say that we are part of the far right. Of course, all of us here know that is ridiculous, but we aren't the target audience for that kind of smear. The audience is the moderate middle-England voter who keeps only one eye on the political scene and can be scared off by any suggestion that a party is extreme.

As UKIP has grown and become ever more widely known, it becomes harder and harder for Labour to get away with this. But if we take a hard line on immigration (or rather, let's say a significantly harder line than the hard line already taken by Labour and the Tories) then we'll be giving the Labour spin-doctors a huge free gift. They'll think it is Christmas! Every newspaper mention of UKIP will be accompanied by some phrase like "the far-right party" or "the anti-immigration party" and the message will be pounded home continually that we are only a hair's breath away from the BNP.

Yes, we need a firm but fair immigration policy. Yes, I agree with UKIP's policy for a 100,000 a year cap on immigration. But as a campaign issue? The sad fact is that it is only even an option for the three old parties, because only they are so well established as to be safe from accusations of far-right sympathies.

Don't even go there!

algypug · 10-12-2004, 10:47 AM

That's fair comment Tom, and much of what you say, i would tend to agree with. However, with such a large percentage of the British population considering immigration to be a major issue, why shouldn't we take advantage of this ? Let's face it, you only need to enter your local pub to hear some extreme views on this subject - to say the least. Whilst dropping leaflets for ukip recently, i had one lady say that she didn't want the leaflet, as she didn't agree with ukip on pulling out of Europe. I asked her 'what about immigration then ?' She replied 'ah. yes, you have got that right havn't you ?' And she took a leaflet. Immigration is what you may term a 'hot subject' right now, and it is affecting all of us.

kernow · 10-12-2004, 10:57 AM

As an Island Country we have to have controlled immigration. This government says we need 100.000 new homes annually,why? It is a fact that the indigineous population is falling, so we should need less housing not more. The 100.000 new homes are to try and accomodate the EU immigrant quota. People say (usually politicians and property developers) that we need more people for a vibrant society. rubbish! I was born in the village/town I now live in. When I was born here we had a vibrant village population of less than 4,000 and lots of family owned shops and 2 policemen. the "village" has now turned INTO phpbb_a souless housing estate of 11,500, with another 3,000 houses in the planning and no police.
the Europhiles say that the European Union has kept the peace in Europe, rubbish! Without Americas presence after WW2, Russia would have swallowed Europe whole. I predict If Britain doesn't get out of the EU and put a halt on immigration, there will be civil war in Britain within the next 10 years.

Biscuitman · 10-12-2004, 12:48 PM

Be wary of any YouGuv survey, they don't conduct a poll without being given the answer by the poll sponsor beforehand.

Anthony Butcher · 10-12-2004, 02:24 PM

UKIP is already seen as strong in immigration - we were the first major party to announce on the issue. You quite possibly never need to mention it again in public. Surprise people; talk about hospitals, education and crime.

I believe that we need more housing not just because the population is increasing, but because certain areas are being abandoned and people are changing; there are more people living alone now.

mkpdavies · 10-12-2004, 02:35 PM

There is a whole raft of reason why more homes are needed, including all of the above. My biggest grumble is the fact all the houses are being built in the South East. It is over crowded, the infrastructure of hospitals, roads etc etc is creaking and to build more and more homes in this same are is stupid.

I would rather see a government try and encourge other areas to grow, and make these areas attractive to work. The South East and London has all the main infrastructure, so people have to go there for commerce etc. I am an econmic migrant in a way, as I had the choice of being a burger flipper in Wellingborough, or moving down to where it was at. Wellingborough is actualy starting to take off now, so perhaps I will return one day, but this is what we need to encourage!

Biscuitman · 10-12-2004, 03:52 PM

I came south in 1983 from the frozen tundra of Darlington.

I think everyone agrees that we need to make the far reaches more attractive.

Building another 720,000 houses in the SEERA region isn't the answer... that won't solve the SE housing problem it will only suck more people in from the North.

To save causing worse congestion problems down here and to start reducing the North South divide we need to create more jobs up their. One way is, as we used, to provide subsideies to employers opening factories up there... primarily for export to the non EU part of the world... these go out through the northern ports.

If we do this then the service industry around the factories starts to develope.

The EU won't allow us to subsidise industry... like they don't subsidise their own... LOL... so we need to be out of the EU, In EFTA and strengthen the Copuncil of Europe.

By strengthening UKIPs support for the C of E and EFTA also defeats the arguement that we are Xenophobes... (which of course under the Eu constitution makes us criminals).

Check out the Council of Europe by putting it in a search engine. Makes the need for the EU redundant and only spends in a year what the Eu throws aaway in a day.

mkpdavies · 10-12-2004, 04:01 PM

Why do they need a flag and anthem? They look a bit too tied INTO phpbb_the EU side of things to me. Why can't there be an organisation that promotes friendship and free trade in Europe, without wanting to become a single entity?

Quote:

Since its foundation in 1949, the Council of Europe has been aware of the need to give Europe a symbol with which its inhabitants can identify. On 25 October 1955 the Parliamentary Assembly made the unanimous decision to adopt a circle of gold stars on a blue background as an emblem. On 8 December 1955 the Committee of Ministers adopted this as the European flag.

Utter rubbish. We don't need a frigging symbol to identify we are European. What is the point?

Quote:

Political aims
The Council of Europe's Vienna Summit in October 1993 set out new political aims. The Heads of State and Government cast the Council of Europe as the guardian of democratic security - founded on human rights, democracy and the rule of law. Democratic security is an essential complement to military security, and is a pre-requisite for the continent's stability and peace.

During the Second Summit in Strasbourg in October 1997, the Heads of State and Government adopted an action plan to strengthen the Council of Europe's work in four areas: democracy and human rights, social cohesion, the security of citizens and democratic values and cultural diversity.

See they can't help falling INTO phpbb_the same trap as the EU!

10-12-2004, 08:48 AM	#1 (permalink)
algypug Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 254	YouGov survey The YouGov survey in this mornings press states that 75% of BRITONS consider there to be too much immigration. It goes on to say, that there may well be a political dividend to be gained for any party taking a robust line on immigration. We all know our stance on immigration, but i feel that massive emphasis should be placed on this subject in both the General Election campaign, and the manifesto (if we ever get one). What are everyone else's thoughts on this ?

10-12-2004, 09:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	I think we have played it about right so far. People know we are for a much more controlled approach to immigration, and we have been attacked for that by others. I am glad we held our ground as it is a big issue for people, and we should continue to make it clear that we can't have an open borders policy wanted by the EU. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

10-12-2004, 12:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,486	Be wary of any YouGuv survey, they don't conduct a poll without being given the answer by the poll sponsor beforehand. __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

10-12-2004, 02:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	There is a whole raft of reason why more homes are needed, including all of the above. My biggest grumble is the fact all the houses are being built in the South East. It is over crowded, the infrastructure of hospitals, roads etc etc is creaking and to build more and more homes in this same are is stupid. I would rather see a government try and encourge other areas to grow, and make these areas attractive to work. The South East and London has all the main infrastructure, so people have to go there for commerce etc. I am an econmic migrant in a way, as I had the choice of being a burger flipper in Wellingborough, or moving down to where it was at. Wellingborough is actualy starting to take off now, so perhaps I will return one day, but this is what we need to encourage! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

10-12-2004, 03:52 PM	#9 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,486	I came south in 1983 from the frozen tundra of Darlington. I think everyone agrees that we need to make the far reaches more attractive. Building another 720,000 houses in the SEERA region isn't the answer... that won't solve the SE housing problem it will only suck more people in from the North. To save causing worse congestion problems down here and to start reducing the North South divide we need to create more jobs up their. One way is, as we used, to provide subsideies to employers opening factories up there... primarily for export to the non EU part of the world... these go out through the northern ports. If we do this then the service industry around the factories starts to develope. The EU won't allow us to subsidise industry... like they don't subsidise their own... LOL... so we need to be out of the EU, In EFTA and strengthen the Copuncil of Europe. By strengthening UKIPs support for the C of E and EFTA also defeats the arguement that we are Xenophobes... (which of course under the Eu constitution makes us criminals). Check out the Council of Europe by putting it in a search engine. Makes the need for the EU redundant and only spends in a year what the Eu throws aaway in a day. __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

10-12-2004, 10:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
Tom Wilde Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: London. Posts: 2,891	It's a trap. As a party, we've been brought together by our desire to bring Britain out of the EU. This is a hugely popular aim which is why we have the other parties worried. They don't want to debate the rights and wrongs with us, as they know we're on strong ground. Therefore they would rather just smear us and dismiss us. The easiest way to do that is to say that we are part of the far right. Of course, all of us here know that is ridiculous, but we aren't the target audience for that kind of smear. The audience is the moderate middle-England voter who keeps only one eye on the political scene and can be scared off by any suggestion that a party is extreme. As UKIP has grown and become ever more widely known, it becomes harder and harder for Labour to get away with this. But if we take a hard line on immigration (or rather, let's say a significantly harder line than the hard line already taken by Labour and the Tories) then we'll be giving the Labour spin-doctors a huge free gift. They'll think it is Christmas! Every newspaper mention of UKIP will be accompanied by some phrase like "the far-right party" or "the anti-immigration party" and the message will be pounded home continually that we are only a hair's breath away from the BNP. Yes, we need a firm but fair immigration policy. Yes, I agree with UKIP's policy for a 100,000 a year cap on immigration. But as a campaign issue? The sad fact is that it is only even an option for the three old parties, because only they are so well established as to be safe from accusations of far-right sympathies. Don't even go there!

10-12-2004, 10:47 AM	#4 (permalink)
algypug Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 254	That's fair comment Tom, and much of what you say, i would tend to agree with. However, with such a large percentage of the British population considering immigration to be a major issue, why shouldn't we take advantage of this ? Let's face it, you only need to enter your local pub to hear some extreme views on this subject - to say the least. Whilst dropping leaflets for ukip recently, i had one lady say that she didn't want the leaflet, as she didn't agree with ukip on pulling out of Europe. I asked her 'what about immigration then ?' She replied 'ah. yes, you have got that right havn't you ?' And she took a leaflet. Immigration is what you may term a 'hot subject' right now, and it is affecting all of us.

10-12-2004, 10:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
kernow Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,182	As an Island Country we have to have controlled immigration. This government says we need 100.000 new homes annually,why? It is a fact that the indigineous population is falling, so we should need less housing not more. The 100.000 new homes are to try and accomodate the EU immigrant quota. People say (usually politicians and property developers) that we need more people for a vibrant society. rubbish! I was born in the village/town I now live in. When I was born here we had a vibrant village population of less than 4,000 and lots of family owned shops and 2 policemen. the "village" has now turned INTO phpbb_a souless housing estate of 11,500, with another 3,000 houses in the planning and no police. the Europhiles say that the European Union has kept the peace in Europe, rubbish! Without Americas presence after WW2, Russia would have swallowed Europe whole. I predict If Britain doesn't get out of the EU and put a halt on immigration, there will be civil war in Britain within the next 10 years.

10-12-2004, 02:24 PM	#7 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,152 Party: None	UKIP is already seen as strong in immigration - we were the first major party to announce on the issue. You quite possibly never need to mention it again in public. Surprise people; talk about hospitals, education and crime. I believe that we need more housing not just because the population is increasing, but because certain areas are being abandoned and people are changing; there are more people living alone now.

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