European Referendum "no" campaign

doc_cruel · 09-12-2004, 10:52 AM

ummm.... not sure I agree... lets be honest we are the main if not only real anti-eu party operating why should we be forced back from the limelight and be overshadowed by 2nd rate parties with no real support?

If we're to build a true political party then we need fight every fight and grab every bit of space in the media not just for UKIP but for every anti-eu'er in Britain.... because everyone knows UKIP IS the anti eu party.

Other smaller parties can join our coalition yes.... but us not run it? Would the US give control of Iraq over to Poland since they have a few troops in .... I think not!

EP Employee if I remember dont your work for an anti-european lobby group (and not UKIP)? and if so is there a vested interest for you to try to stop us taking rightful charge of the no campaign?

mkpdavies · 09-12-2004, 11:01 AM

This is the whole point. The vote-no campaign is just that, a campaign. They are not running for seats or to win any power, they are only focused on getting people to vote no in a referendum.

They are not a threat to us, they compliment our values on this, and that will be a good thing in helping the British people make the right decision at the end of the day.

They will be only two choices, YES or NO. We want people to vote for NO and that is all I care about.

EP Employee · 09-12-2004, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doc_cruel

ummm.... not sure I agree... lets be honest we are the main if not only real anti-eu party operating why should we be forced back from the limelight and be overshadowed by 2nd rate parties with no real support?

If we're to build a true political party then we need fight every fight and grab every bit of space in the media not just for UKIP but for every anti-eu'er in Britain.... because everyone knows UKIP IS the anti eu party.

Other smaller parties can join our coalition yes.... but us not run it? Would the US give control of Iraq over to Poland since they have a few troops in .... I think not!

EP Employee if I remember dont your work for an anti-european lobby group (and not UKIP)? and if so is there a vested interest for you to try to stop us taking rightful charge of the no campaign?

No, you're just being silly. My job is to help co-ordinate No campaigns EU-wide, not run them.

There are no referendum votes to be won in a political party taking over the referendum campaign - only votes to be lost. By being neutral, the No campaign appeals to voters of all colours. By being partisan, it will alienate voters. Fact.

This isn't a referendum on the EU - it's on the EU Constitution. BIG difference in the eyes of most people. Fine - use the No campaign to grab your publicity for UKIP. But when you alienate the floating voters by doing so, lost the referendum and irretrievably commit the UK to being part of the EU, you only have yourself to blame.

doc_cruel · 09-12-2004, 11:10 AM

That's all I care about too MKP - but you're 100% right in saying it's short term... if a groups is set up for every single campaign then we need to every time a new group needs to be marketed, campaigned for and then after the battle all momentum is lost.

We need something long term.... and we're it.

UKIP is a super strong brand - everyone knows our logo, our policies, what we stand for.... why go to all the effort of building someone else up when we have a perfectly good party here?

EP - sorry twasn't sure who you worked for

I agree with you on some levels but I guess it's the fundimentals I'm not with you on. I feel that supporters of 'lesser' parties - those who on their own maybe polled a few hundred votes a time aren't going to suddenly vote 'yes' because we're running the show! but come the next election it's UKIP who're the standard bearers.... why not try to build us up rather then bring all down.

kernow · 09-12-2004, 11:16 AM

In my opinion we should not cosy up to any other party, the Lib-Lab pact ought to prove that point. We are the only true EUsceptic party, so why bother with other parties, everyone in politics know who we are if they agree with us they'll join us. British politics has to change and I think we are the party destined to change it!

EP Employee · 09-12-2004, 11:19 AM

Yes, but the point is the referendum No campaign transcends party politics. Make it party political and you'll end up losing the damned thing.

Perfect example: the North East regional assembly campaign. It wasn't run by one party, it was a local coalition, and the result was overwhelming. Get a result like that on the EU referendum and the thing is dead and buried in the UK.

By all means squabble with other parties over credit when the thing is done and dusted, but don't **** it up by squabbling in the short term.

mkpdavies · 09-12-2004, 11:21 AM

I agree that we don't cosy up to other parties, but we don't have to do this to support the vote no campaign. That is all it is, and we can campaign for it without even speaking to the other parties.

I am signing up to it, but my loyalties will always lie first and formost with UKIP, as they really represent my views.

doc_cruel · 09-12-2004, 11:22 AM

EP - there would be no squabbling.... and we certainly wouldn't loose it if we dont give ultimate power to a few unelected people who've decided to set up a campaign in the cause's name...... who decided the no-campaign should run the show? you? me? or themselves?

EP Employee · 09-12-2004, 11:23 AM

Given the regard with which most politicians are held in the UK - i.e. incredibly low - I think the campaign will carry a lot more weight with businessmen and ordinary people running the show.

mkpdavies · 09-12-2004, 11:27 AM

I agree, that is it's strength. No harm supporting it, in my oppinion!

09-12-2004, 11:01 AM	#12 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	This is the whole point. The vote-no campaign is just that, a campaign. They are not running for seats or to win any power, they are only focused on getting people to vote no in a referendum. They are not a threat to us, they compliment our values on this, and that will be a good thing in helping the British people make the right decision at the end of the day. They will be only two choices, YES or NO. We want people to vote for NO and that is all I care about. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

09-12-2004, 11:21 AM	#17 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	I agree that we don't cosy up to other parties, but we don't have to do this to support the vote no campaign. That is all it is, and we can campaign for it without even speaking to the other parties. I am signing up to it, but my loyalties will always lie first and formost with UKIP, as they really represent my views. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

09-12-2004, 11:27 AM	#20 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,841 Party: Libertarian Party	I agree, that is it's strength. No harm supporting it, in my oppinion! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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09-12-2004, 10:52 AM	#11 (permalink)
doc_cruel Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 213	ummm.... not sure I agree... lets be honest we are the main if not only real anti-eu party operating why should we be forced back from the limelight and be overshadowed by 2nd rate parties with no real support? If we're to build a true political party then we need fight every fight and grab every bit of space in the media not just for UKIP but for every anti-eu'er in Britain.... because everyone knows UKIP IS the anti eu party. Other smaller parties can join our coalition yes.... but us not run it? Would the US give control of Iraq over to Poland since they have a few troops in .... I think not! EP Employee if I remember dont your work for an anti-european lobby group (and not UKIP)? and if so is there a vested interest for you to try to stop us taking rightful charge of the no campaign?

09-12-2004, 11:10 AM	#14 (permalink)
doc_cruel Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 213	That's all I care about too MKP - but you're 100% right in saying it's short term... if a groups is set up for every single campaign then we need to every time a new group needs to be marketed, campaigned for and then after the battle all momentum is lost. We need something long term.... and we're it. UKIP is a super strong brand - everyone knows our logo, our policies, what we stand for.... why go to all the effort of building someone else up when we have a perfectly good party here? EP - sorry twasn't sure who you worked for I agree with you on some levels but I guess it's the fundimentals I'm not with you on. I feel that supporters of 'lesser' parties - those who on their own maybe polled a few hundred votes a time aren't going to suddenly vote 'yes' because we're running the show! but come the next election it's UKIP who're the standard bearers.... why not try to build us up rather then bring all down.

09-12-2004, 11:16 AM	#15 (permalink)
kernow Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,182	In my opinion we should not cosy up to any other party, the Lib-Lab pact ought to prove that point. We are the only true EUsceptic party, so why bother with other parties, everyone in politics know who we are if they agree with us they'll join us. British politics has to change and I think we are the party destined to change it!

09-12-2004, 11:19 AM	#16 (permalink)
EP Employee Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 55	Yes, but the point is the referendum No campaign transcends party politics. Make it party political and you'll end up losing the damned thing. Perfect example: the North East regional assembly campaign. It wasn't run by one party, it was a local coalition, and the result was overwhelming. Get a result like that on the EU referendum and the thing is dead and buried in the UK. By all means squabble with other parties over credit when the thing is done and dusted, but don't **** it up by squabbling in the short term.

09-12-2004, 11:22 AM	#18 (permalink)
doc_cruel Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 213	EP - there would be no squabbling.... and we certainly wouldn't loose it if we dont give ultimate power to a few unelected people who've decided to set up a campaign in the cause's name...... who decided the no-campaign should run the show? you? me? or themselves?

09-12-2004, 11:23 AM	#19 (permalink)
EP Employee Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 55	Given the regard with which most politicians are held in the UK - i.e. incredibly low - I think the campaign will carry a lot more weight with businessmen and ordinary people running the show.