Cannabis

Intbel · 08-12-2004, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Faulkner

No, only reckless, selfish people disregard laws that are meant for all...

That is blatantly untrue.

Mystic Taboo · 08-12-2004, 03:10 PM

Cannabis is far stronger than it was in the 1970's. It has been proved to have a negative effect on mental health, and it has been proved that smoking 1 joint is equal to smoking 3-6 cigarettes due to deeper inhalation. Long term cannabis users have often reported suffereing from depression and severe lethargy. Incidents of 'cannabis Psychosis' are on the rise and doctors believe that cannabis plays a part in many deaths which are simply written off as suicide.

Cannabis is a 'bad' thing I think its a tad odd that we are trying to ban smoking in pubs and using increasingly graphic images to put people off smoking and on the other hand re-classifying cannabis and arguing for its legalisation when cannabis is i believe more harmful than smoking.

The argument that you could have a market which could be taxed if certain drugs were legalised is irrelevant, the government should be there to protect citizens from vices and its a bit sick the idea that government should make money out of their citizens misery ('mental health timebomb') when the government is supposed to protect their citizens sometimes from their own vices.

Btw before anyone quotes the camden experiment where Brian Paddicks police stopped pulling up those smoking weed and saw a drop in overall crime (on the basis that police were free to concentrate on harder crimes) the experiment was not properly done as the change in attitude came in just as Police were being swapped from traffice duty. Thus the experiment was weighted in favour of a drop in crime.

In New York the crime rate has dropped due to a 'broken windows policy' where a zero tolerance approach to policing on low level issues such as anti-social behaviour and cannabis smoking has taken down the overall crime rate including more serious crimes and you stop the 'conveyor belt to crime'. The same sort of policy carried out in Middlesborough by 'Robocop' Ray Mallon has also drastically cut crime.

I watched the London program the other week which summed things up well - it was all about the dangers of Cannabis.

The problem as the charity 'Sane' said Cannbis taking is Russian Roulette, some people are ok with it but some can develop severe long lasting pscyhosis and it is linked to triggering of Szchizophrenia (Professor Robbins Insititue of Psychology) so the government would fail in its primary duty of protecting the citizen body if it legalised it. Thats without factoring in the fact that it is worse that smoking see Frank the British Governments pro-drug website.

Some Lass called Dr Zerkhan is testing the effect of THC on different people to see if a test can be devised to pinpoint the people who will suffer a severe reaction to cannabis.

Currently Holland is debating legislation to make illegal cannabis with over 15 percent THC.

On a random test the london programme found that 20 percent of cannabis had over 15 percent THC and interviewed a Chap from British transport police who said that since re-classification more and more young people are taking cannabis this is particularly dangerous as Cannabis is most dangerous for those with adolsecent minds.

Was quite an interesting programme.

mkpdavies · 08-12-2004, 03:20 PM

It sure isn't a simple argument. I still think a person should be allowed to screw themselves up as much as they want, but if it is proven to have adverse effects on

1) Children
2) Society as a whole

then why open the can of worms. It does need a long hard look at! On the issue of effects on mental health, I know people who smoke that seem fine, but I did know one guy who changed over time INTO phpbb_a very paranoid individual. Who knows if the drugs really caused this or not.

What is not an option, is keeping the status quo. There are already a huge number of people using cannabis, and with crime involved it has to be worse for everyone involved. There is probably no perfect solution, but I always err on the side of personal liberties, with safeguards against effecting other people.

Afterall their is a case for banning booze, cigarettes, fast cars, fireworks, etc etc that can, and do cause harm when abused!

Mystic Taboo · 08-12-2004, 03:53 PM

Sigh well if the alternative to the status quo is legalising it and making the problem worse then the Status Quo will do nicely. Not entirely sure how you can the other way I dont think anyone agrees with long term prison sentences for cannabis user. So yeah the Status Quo or at least going back to its normal classificaton is probably best (see comments by London transport police in my previous statement and flaws in Paddicks experiment).

08-12-2004, 03:20 PM	#33 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,842 Party: Libertarian Party	It sure isn't a simple argument. I still think a person should be allowed to screw themselves up as much as they want, but if it is proven to have adverse effects on 1) Children 2) Society as a whole then why open the can of worms. It does need a long hard look at! On the issue of effects on mental health, I know people who smoke that seem fine, but I did know one guy who changed over time INTO phpbb_a very paranoid individual. Who knows if the drugs really caused this or not. What is not an option, is keeping the status quo. There are already a huge number of people using cannabis, and with crime involved it has to be worse for everyone involved. There is probably no perfect solution, but I always err on the side of personal liberties, with safeguards against effecting other people. Afterall their is a case for banning booze, cigarettes, fast cars, fireworks, etc etc that can, and do cause harm when abused! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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08-12-2004, 03:10 PM	#32 (permalink)
Mystic Taboo Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 32	Cannabis is far stronger than it was in the 1970's. It has been proved to have a negative effect on mental health, and it has been proved that smoking 1 joint is equal to smoking 3-6 cigarettes due to deeper inhalation. Long term cannabis users have often reported suffereing from depression and severe lethargy. Incidents of 'cannabis Psychosis' are on the rise and doctors believe that cannabis plays a part in many deaths which are simply written off as suicide. Cannabis is a 'bad' thing I think its a tad odd that we are trying to ban smoking in pubs and using increasingly graphic images to put people off smoking and on the other hand re-classifying cannabis and arguing for its legalisation when cannabis is i believe more harmful than smoking. The argument that you could have a market which could be taxed if certain drugs were legalised is irrelevant, the government should be there to protect citizens from vices and its a bit sick the idea that government should make money out of their citizens misery ('mental health timebomb') when the government is supposed to protect their citizens sometimes from their own vices. Btw before anyone quotes the camden experiment where Brian Paddicks police stopped pulling up those smoking weed and saw a drop in overall crime (on the basis that police were free to concentrate on harder crimes) the experiment was not properly done as the change in attitude came in just as Police were being swapped from traffice duty. Thus the experiment was weighted in favour of a drop in crime. In New York the crime rate has dropped due to a 'broken windows policy' where a zero tolerance approach to policing on low level issues such as anti-social behaviour and cannabis smoking has taken down the overall crime rate including more serious crimes and you stop the 'conveyor belt to crime'. The same sort of policy carried out in Middlesborough by 'Robocop' Ray Mallon has also drastically cut crime. I watched the London program the other week which summed things up well - it was all about the dangers of Cannabis. The problem as the charity 'Sane' said Cannbis taking is Russian Roulette, some people are ok with it but some can develop severe long lasting pscyhosis and it is linked to triggering of Szchizophrenia (Professor Robbins Insititue of Psychology) so the government would fail in its primary duty of protecting the citizen body if it legalised it. Thats without factoring in the fact that it is worse that smoking see Frank the British Governments pro-drug website. Some Lass called Dr Zerkhan is testing the effect of THC on different people to see if a test can be devised to pinpoint the people who will suffer a severe reaction to cannabis. Currently Holland is debating legislation to make illegal cannabis with over 15 percent THC. On a random test the london programme found that 20 percent of cannabis had over 15 percent THC and interviewed a Chap from British transport police who said that since re-classification more and more young people are taking cannabis this is particularly dangerous as Cannabis is most dangerous for those with adolsecent minds. Was quite an interesting programme.

08-12-2004, 03:53 PM	#34 (permalink)
Mystic Taboo Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 32	Sigh well if the alternative to the status quo is legalising it and making the problem worse then the Status Quo will do nicely. Not entirely sure how you can the other way I dont think anyone agrees with long term prison sentences for cannabis user. So yeah the Status Quo or at least going back to its normal classificaton is probably best (see comments by London transport police in my previous statement and flaws in Paddicks experiment).