Cannabis

Nigel Garage · 07-12-2004, 11:34 AM

Er... dunno.

But the question is - what do you do about it? You can't just ignore a UN treaty.

I'm not pro or anti, I can see both sides' point, but I don't see how to get round it. Maybe the only answer is the Dutch way - selectively turn a blind eye.

mkpdavies · 07-12-2004, 12:59 PM

I didn't even realise the UN had jurisdiction over such issues. That concerns me, as it suggests that the UN could become a global version of the EU one day, then the whole world can live under an unelected dictatorship, and Hitlers dream will be complete.

The UN shouldn't have anything to do with such matters, they are for keeping the peace, promoting fair trade and co-operation between countries. Interfering with a sovereign nations laws is not in their remit.

Tom Wilde · 07-12-2004, 02:11 PM

Having difficulty finding the relevant UN agreements, though it certainly looks as if there are some. However, here is a page reporting a study that claims: "UN Treaty 'No Bar' To Easing Drug Laws"

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01.n1583.a03.html

Carl Faulkner · 07-12-2004, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Now I have answerd your question, perhaps you might do me the courtesy of answering my original question which was "What 'mess' would be created by legalising marijuana do you suppose?"

Ill health; lung cancer; brain impairment; health of unborn children; addiction

The sort of things that readily available mind altering substances are already causing...as I said, why make the problem worse just because some need to escape reality with a bit of 'happy baccy'. Peace man.

Intbel · 07-12-2004, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Faulkner

Ill health;

Marijuana has several medical uses, not least as a pain reliever.
I have a friend who is minus both his legs and due to complications is in constant pain. Marijuana helps him deal with the pain. The docs prescribed Morphine but he found he was becoming immune to that, was needing to take larger and larger doses to alleviate the pain and it was making him ill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Faulkner

lung cancer; brain impairment; health of unborn children; addiction

Lung cancer - no more or less than cigarettes which are addictive and legal. Additionally, marijuana does not need to be smoked.
And marijuana is not addictive - unlike tobbacco and alcohol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Faulkner

The sort of things that readily available mind altering substances are already causing...as I said, why make the problem worse just because some need to escape reality with a bit of 'happy baccy'. Peace man.

Such as the sort of thing which readily available alcohol is causing.
The effects of alcohol are far more damaging to our society than marijuanal.

Carl Faulkner · 07-12-2004, 10:38 PM

Quote:

marijuana is not addictive

Strange how for something that is not addictive folk are prepared to buy from seedy street corner dealers...If its not addictive why don't people stop using it until its legal?

I suppose you are not aware that cannabis doubles the risk of developing schizophrenia...

Intbel · 07-12-2004, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Faulkner

Strange how for something that is not addictive folk are prepared to buy from seedy street corner dealers...

It is often necessary to purchase this way because it is illegal. If it were not - they would not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Faulkner

If its not addictive why don't people stop using it until its legal?

No reason why they should.
If folks think a law is unreasonable they will take little notice of it - whether it is a law outlawing marijuana or an inapproprite speed limit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Faulkner

I suppose you are not aware that cannabis doubles the risk of developing schizophrenia...

I am aware of the report which states this. I also understand that this only applies when it is used to excess.
Mostly anything used to excess is harmful in one way or another.

Carl Faulkner · 08-12-2004, 07:31 AM

Quote:

No reason why they should.
If folks think a law is unreasonable they will take little notice of it - whether it is a law outlawing marijuana or an inapproprite speed limit.

No, only reckless, selfish people disregard laws that are meant for all...

So you are one of the 'speedsters' hitting that minty highway...hope you are not puffing at the happy baccy whilst doing so...

mkpdavies · 08-12-2004, 08:54 AM

Does anyone know if there has been a real offical study of Amsterdam, to see what the effects of a liberalised drugs policy is?

Has the fact canabis is freely available seen an increase in other drugs? Has crime, and drug related crime gone up or down? Have accidents gone up, illness rates etc etc etc.

I know for sure that a whole drugs tourism has sprung up there, with people all over the world going to Amsterdam for their cake and whatever. Has that had an adverse effect on any part or even the whole of Amsterdam? Indeed has all the extra money from the tourism had a positive effect?

Britain doesn't have to be the Guinea pig here, when we should have a test case to learn from not so far away!

Nigel Garage · 08-12-2004, 12:40 PM

The Dutch police have been cracking down on the drug cafes and pimps since the mid-90s, as a result of public outcry against the descent of their city INTO phpbb_a crime-ridden dump. All the scum of Europe migrated there looking for drugs and prostitutes.

Of course, if cannabis was tolerated everywhere the scum of Europe wouldn't have had to all congregate in one place!

07-12-2004, 12:59 PM	#22 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,846 Party: Libertarian Party	I didn't even realise the UN had jurisdiction over such issues. That concerns me, as it suggests that the UN could become a global version of the EU one day, then the whole world can live under an unelected dictatorship, and Hitlers dream will be complete. The UN shouldn't have anything to do with such matters, they are for keeping the peace, promoting fair trade and co-operation between countries. Interfering with a sovereign nations laws is not in their remit. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

08-12-2004, 08:54 AM	#29 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,846 Party: Libertarian Party	Does anyone know if there has been a real offical study of Amsterdam, to see what the effects of a liberalised drugs policy is? Has the fact canabis is freely available seen an increase in other drugs? Has crime, and drug related crime gone up or down? Have accidents gone up, illness rates etc etc etc. I know for sure that a whole drugs tourism has sprung up there, with people all over the world going to Amsterdam for their cake and whatever. Has that had an adverse effect on any part or even the whole of Amsterdam? Indeed has all the extra money from the tourism had a positive effect? Britain doesn't have to be the Guinea pig here, when we should have a test case to learn from not so far away! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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07-12-2004, 11:34 AM	#21 (permalink)
Nigel Garage Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ashford Posts: 557	Er... dunno. But the question is - what do you do about it? You can't just ignore a UN treaty. I'm not pro or anti, I can see both sides' point, but I don't see how to get round it. Maybe the only answer is the Dutch way - selectively turn a blind eye.

07-12-2004, 02:11 PM	#23 (permalink)
Tom Wilde Moderator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: London. Posts: 2,891	Having difficulty finding the relevant UN agreements, though it certainly looks as if there are some. However, here is a page reporting a study that claims: "UN Treaty 'No Bar' To Easing Drug Laws" http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01.n1583.a03.html

08-12-2004, 12:40 PM	#30 (permalink)
Nigel Garage Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Ashford Posts: 557	The Dutch police have been cracking down on the drug cafes and pimps since the mid-90s, as a result of public outcry against the descent of their city INTO phpbb_a crime-ridden dump. All the scum of Europe migrated there looking for drugs and prostitutes. Of course, if cannabis was tolerated everywhere the scum of Europe wouldn't have had to all congregate in one place!