E mail from UKIP London to Branch Chairmen.

Auctor Ignotus · 01-12-2004, 11:56 AM

I sincerely hope that this is not true.

Quote:

Dear Fellow Branch Chairman

PLEASE STOP THE MOVE TO DO SECRET DEALS WITH THE TORIES

Apologies for yet another UKIP email, but there's something I'm very concerned about. I'm a branch chairman and I work at the London Assembly for the UKIP Group. As you may know, we won two seats at the London Assembly in June and it is a place where you learn a lot about what is going on. The Tories here are convinced that "UKIP has already done a deal with the Conservative Party and that UKIP will field fewer candidates than at the last General Election".

When I asked an NEC member if there was any truth in this, he told me that the leadership had refused to tell the NEC anything about the party's election strategy. At the last NEC meeting on 8th November 2004, they stated that they were not going to disclose anything to the NEC.

The Conservatives here are convinced we have done a deal with the Tory Party. This is increasingly embarrassing to us and it seems to fit in with Nigel Farage's attitude at the Party Conference in October when he was defeated on a motion that we should do deals with the Tories and not fight every seat. Those of you who were there will remember that he accused us all of being "drunk on euphoria" because we voted 95 per cent against his motion.

I call upon the Party leadership to confirm that they will immediately disclose the election strategy to the party NEC, and to state that they have abandoned the policy of denying the NEC any knowledge of election policy. If you know an NEC member, please get in touch with them about this.

Regards

mkpdavies · 01-12-2004, 12:38 PM

If there is even the slightest hint that the leadership have signed a deal with the Conservative, then they will have signed their own death warrants. The membership have spoken on the issue, and as we are a bottom up party, we expect our wishes to be adhered to.

I am told that we are going to stand in every seat possible, if this turns out to be false, certain people would have lost all credibility.

Thus I will believe it when I see it. Knapman has already said we are fighting all seats, so I am not sure why he needs to say it again.

Biscuitman · 01-12-2004, 05:29 PM

With over 500 candidates already in the process, with the NEC's approval, of being accepted and amny hundreds already adopted, we are naming the three for our branch next week, I cannot see any credence in this claim.

Everything I have heard from Nigel Fargage, David Lott and other chairmen, I'm the branch man for Biscuitland, idicates that we are standing in every seat we can get a candidate.

The only caveate that the NEC have made is that where ever possible the candidates should be 'active' and not paper candidates as has been the case in the past.

They will only allow paper candidates where ever there is no branch to support a candidate.

I am disapointed, as I am sure many others are at this attempted smear whcih in itself will give our enemies outside the party more ammunition.

How big a hole do we need to dig?

Anthony Butcher · 01-12-2004, 07:19 PM

And let's not forget that the laedership actually forced the Stratford (?) branch to put up a candidate, after the local party said that they didn't want to stand against a "eurosceptic" MP.

C_steam · 01-12-2004, 08:15 PM

Stafford - or was it Stoke. (They're both north of Watford Anthony, nowhere near Stratford!

)

mkpdavies · 01-12-2004, 08:25 PM

Good to see Petrina Holdsworth has stomped all over the story, as reported in Martin Coles Blog. She makes it clear that there are no pacts and that we have candidates coming out of our ears to fight the seats.

As usual Cole tries to put a biased slant on it, but I have long since learned not to read the comments and just read the facts on that site.
No deals, so whoever posted it is either being mislead, or worse. I think it could be a dirty tricks campaign by the Tories to have us fighting each other, and my word it seems to have done that alright!

Anthony Butcher · 02-12-2004, 12:24 AM

It was indeed Stafford. My apologies - I was in a rush and didn't have time to look it up. I thought that it didn't wound entirely correct when I typed it.

Intbel · 02-12-2004, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auctor Ignotus

PLEASE STOP THE MOVE TO DO SECRET DEALS WITH THE TORIES

As it happens I am one of the minority which voted for Nigels's motion, my reasoning being as follows:

First, I firmly believe that Tony Blair is renegading on his oath of allegiance as are all his supporters who took the same oath when taking their seats in Parliament.

Thus they may be considered traitors.

Now, if we were to agree not to field candidates in constituencies where the sitting Conservative MPs publicly announced their desire to oppose the U.E. then we would gain twofold:

1. We could hold up such Conservative MPs as being people of honour while at the same time casting shame upon all other Conservative MPs for being traitors.

2. It is almost certain those MPs who 'came out of the closet' would be de-selected which could mean:

a) They might stand as UKIP candidates.
b) If they did not stand, we would be able to legitimately field candidates in their constituences because no longer would the Conservative party be fielding candidates who were anti E.U. in those constituencies.

Making enemies of folks in any party will do us no favours.
We know many folks in all parties want out of the E.U.
And we need these folks' support

mkpdavies · 02-12-2004, 01:04 AM

Sorry I disagree. The Conservative party will never make the pledge to withdraw from the EU. It has too many people who want to hand over power asap. John Redwood is supposed to be their main man for being against the EU, yet he voted yes for the Maastricht treaty. I don't trust any of them, and doing shabby little deals to help the Conservatives INTO phpbb_power isn't what I joined UKIP for.

Making the assumption that the Tories are in some way better than the Labour party is wrong, as they will hand over to the EU too, only they will try and be more sly about it. Just because they have a handful of MP's who MIGHT fight for our cause, that doesn't mean they will have any effect. I remember only too well how this kind of person was treated when traitor, John Major was in power.

There are a lot of people in UKIP now that could not care less for the Tories. We want a party that will tell the people the truth, and you know what you are getting with it. The sooner we bannish any idea that we want to help any Tories keep their seat on the gravy train the better. They can be considered traitors, just as much as Blairs bunch.

No Tory's would be deselected if the party thought they had a chance of winning. They would just remove the whip from them once they were in and continue with operation sell-out Britain.

We are already other parties enemies, because we don't want to be associated with their self-preservation society.

Anthony Butcher · 02-12-2004, 01:09 AM

Welcome to the forum Intbel.

I was one of those who voted against the motion. With a little more wisdom than I had at the time, here is why I stick to my vote:

1. I don't believe that a single MP from any other party would ever sign an agreement to stand on a different manifesto to their party, because, as you say, they would be instantly deselected.

2. There are no real "eurosceptics" in the Tory party. The Conservatives support our EU membership, and by definition, so do all of their MPs. They may talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk, and don't deserve to get any kind of easy ride from us. They can join us or lose.

3. It would make us look like a wing of the Tory party.

4. It damages our credibility as a party by suggesting that we cannot muster enough votes on our own to get an MP elected.

5. It makes us INTO phpbb_a single issue party, which UKIP isn't anymore. It demeans everything else that we stand for.

The UK Independence Party is a force for good in this country. We shouldn't be afraid of the other parties; they should fear us. We are here to take the country back, to end our deculturalisation, end our disastrous EU membership and lead Britain to a better, brighter future.

01-12-2004, 12:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,847 Party: Libertarian Party	If there is even the slightest hint that the leadership have signed a deal with the Conservative, then they will have signed their own death warrants. The membership have spoken on the issue, and as we are a bottom up party, we expect our wishes to be adhered to. I am told that we are going to stand in every seat possible, if this turns out to be false, certain people would have lost all credibility. Thus I will believe it when I see it. Knapman has already said we are fighting all seats, so I am not sure why he needs to say it again. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

01-12-2004, 05:29 PM	#3 (permalink)
Biscuitman Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 3,486	With over 500 candidates already in the process, with the NEC's approval, of being accepted and amny hundreds already adopted, we are naming the three for our branch next week, I cannot see any credence in this claim. Everything I have heard from Nigel Fargage, David Lott and other chairmen, I'm the branch man for Biscuitland, idicates that we are standing in every seat we can get a candidate. The only caveate that the NEC have made is that where ever possible the candidates should be 'active' and not paper candidates as has been the case in the past. They will only allow paper candidates where ever there is no branch to support a candidate. I am disapointed, as I am sure many others are at this attempted smear whcih in itself will give our enemies outside the party more ammunition. How big a hole do we need to dig? __________________ IF THE EU WAS THE ANSWER, IT MUST HAVE BEEN A STUPID QUESTION!

01-12-2004, 08:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,847 Party: Libertarian Party	Good to see Petrina Holdsworth has stomped all over the story, as reported in Martin Coles Blog. She makes it clear that there are no pacts and that we have candidates coming out of our ears to fight the seats. As usual Cole tries to put a biased slant on it, but I have long since learned not to read the comments and just read the facts on that site. No deals, so whoever posted it is either being mislead, or worse. I think it could be a dirty tricks campaign by the Tories to have us fighting each other, and my word it seems to have done that alright! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

02-12-2004, 01:04 AM	#9 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,847 Party: Libertarian Party	Sorry I disagree. The Conservative party will never make the pledge to withdraw from the EU. It has too many people who want to hand over power asap. John Redwood is supposed to be their main man for being against the EU, yet he voted yes for the Maastricht treaty. I don't trust any of them, and doing shabby little deals to help the Conservatives INTO phpbb_power isn't what I joined UKIP for. Making the assumption that the Tories are in some way better than the Labour party is wrong, as they will hand over to the EU too, only they will try and be more sly about it. Just because they have a handful of MP's who MIGHT fight for our cause, that doesn't mean they will have any effect. I remember only too well how this kind of person was treated when traitor, John Major was in power. There are a lot of people in UKIP now that could not care less for the Tories. We want a party that will tell the people the truth, and you know what you are getting with it. The sooner we bannish any idea that we want to help any Tories keep their seat on the gravy train the better. They can be considered traitors, just as much as Blairs bunch. No Tory's would be deselected if the party thought they had a chance of winning. They would just remove the whip from them once they were in and continue with operation sell-out Britain. We are already other parties enemies, because we don't want to be associated with their self-preservation society. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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01-12-2004, 07:19 PM	#4 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,152 Party: None	And let's not forget that the laedership actually forced the Stratford (?) branch to put up a candidate, after the local party said that they didn't want to stand against a "eurosceptic" MP.

01-12-2004, 08:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,711	Stafford - or was it Stoke. (They're both north of Watford Anthony, nowhere near Stratford! )

02-12-2004, 12:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,152 Party: None	It was indeed Stafford. My apologies - I was in a rush and didn't have time to look it up. I thought that it didn't wound entirely correct when I typed it.

02-12-2004, 01:09 AM	#10 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 10,152 Party: None	Welcome to the forum Intbel. I was one of those who voted against the motion. With a little more wisdom than I had at the time, here is why I stick to my vote: 1. I don't believe that a single MP from any other party would ever sign an agreement to stand on a different manifesto to their party, because, as you say, they would be instantly deselected. 2. There are no real "eurosceptics" in the Tory party. The Conservatives support our EU membership, and by definition, so do all of their MPs. They may talk the talk, but they don't walk the walk, and don't deserve to get any kind of easy ride from us. They can join us or lose. 3. It would make us look like a wing of the Tory party. 4. It damages our credibility as a party by suggesting that we cannot muster enough votes on our own to get an MP elected. 5. It makes us INTO phpbb_a single issue party, which UKIP isn't anymore. It demeans everything else that we stand for. The UK Independence Party is a force for good in this country. We shouldn't be afraid of the other parties; they should fear us. We are here to take the country back, to end our deculturalisation, end our disastrous EU membership and lead Britain to a better, brighter future.