E mail from UKIP London to Branch Chairmen.

Nigel Garage · 08-12-2004, 04:22 PM

Quote:

It would take a far better man than you to rattle me!
you are very, very foolish.
Contact him by email, if you have the courage.
you are living on another planet!
people like you who are out to wreck our chances
Thank god I am not like you
Grow up, Garage

Personal insults are a sure sign of being rattled, John!

For the record, I am a UKIP member, and a branch chairman. If you don't believe me, that's OK.

mkpdavies · 08-12-2004, 04:28 PM

Guys, I understand that this is an emotive issue, but can we calm it down a bit please. I am bored of deleting message after message, and I am tempted to do the same here. Any further quips or tirades and I will chop them.

johnwest · 08-12-2004, 04:31 PM

By the way, answer the points I made. As I said before it would take someone with a far, far better argument against the leadership to rattle me. Don't mistake boredom with your constant attacks as being rattled.

johnwest · 08-12-2004, 04:42 PM

So much for democracy! I think you will find that Garage attacked my original post. I would have thought I have the right to reply to any attacks made on me or the subject covered in the post as long as I don't resort to using bad language or remarks that could be regarded as breaking the libel laws. We don't need Orwell's 'Big Brother' on this forum.

mkpdavies · 08-12-2004, 04:53 PM

No not big brother, but big mutha, me

I didn't delete the big post for that very reason John. I get accused by both sides of being unfair, I try to be as fair as possible, but I am only human.

The best solution is for neither side to attack the other in a personal way. I want a fair fact based debate, it is like walking the tightrope keeping it that way, this is where I need all of you to help me!

johnwest · 08-12-2004, 05:06 PM

That's fine. I, of course, have no wish to insult others. Unfortunately our future is at stake. Sometimes, I get rather fed up with those who can't concentrate on the big picture and seem to be more concerned on pushing a policy that might split the only party that could save our nation. I know of many who would walk if Kilroy became leader. All this could have been prevented if Kilroy had waited.
A few more years of this and it will too late for this land and her people. I don't wish to betray all those who died for us in two wars. Let's fight the election, not each other!

ldatakiller · 08-12-2004, 07:20 PM

I have written a couple of times on this Forum & read a lot more. I am against Britain being in Europe & am not a member of ANY Political party, Group or Cabal etc. My real name is Peter Lindley (before anyone starts saying I'm hiding behind a psudonym).

Until Kilroy joined UKIP I had never heard of Nigel Farage, or anyone else in UKIP. I got interested (like many others), after Kilroy raised UKIP's profile to show that it "could" make a difference & it was not just a fringe group.

I now see that I have been very much mistaken so far.

My observations so far for what they are worth:-

1) Nigel Farage is a power hungry Politician & nothing more.

2) Roger Knapman is Mr invisible (can I get some of his invisibility serum please.).

3) Nigel Garage seems to have a better understanding of people OUTSIDE of UKIP than many of you do.

4) Many on this Forum seem to be pre-occupied with being on Knapmans side or Kilroys side.

5) I have only see UKIP do TWO things since the Euro elections (Nigel Farge a couple of weeks ago) (I'm sure you all remember), & Kilroy with his questions to the Euro Parliament.

6) Kilroy,whether he is mr right or not, is UKIP's only way of getting ANYWHERE near an election result that can help to make a difference.

7) UKIP leadership is self centered, power hungry & INVISIBLE.

8) I & my wife want to join UKIP but so far all I have seen is a party at war with itself & blaming all the ills of the world on Kilroy.

9) The NEC person (not sure of her name), is definately RUDE, RUDE,RUDE & not who I would want in any position of power over me (unless I joined an S & M club which I won't).

WHERE IS ALL THE INFORMATION ON WHAT IS HAPPENING BETWEEN NOW & THE GENERAL ELECTION, INVISIBLE LIKE THE LEADERSHIP.

I don't care who runs UKIP, but if you want my wife's vote & mine, get your Bl£$%dy act together QUICK. I am sure there are many others who feel like me as well.

I look forward to your constructive retorts, criticisms & even maybe a couple of nice ones too.

C_steam · 08-12-2004, 08:13 PM

How about a 'nice one!' To take your points in order

1 - Not sure - don't have enough personal evidence, but I suspect you're right.
2,3 - agree.
4 - difficult issue, people tend to take sides. My preference is to try and ignore the personalities (in one case, easy, in the other, not easy!) and ask for strong leadership, whoever gives it.
5 - agree - see my posts on 'Press releases'
6 - Partial agreement - Kilroy has his faults but press presence, media relations and being in tune with the public are his strengths. we need these.
7 - or just plain weak. Following the 'manifesto' debacle, I'm tempted to say 'Incompetent' also. If nothing significant happens in the interim, the next AGM should be interesting!
8 - Join now. You get a nice card. It feels better to criticise from the inside!
9 - I think she was provoked!

I second your statement in caps!

jp · 08-12-2004, 08:15 PM

There is an inevitable amount of introspection on this board which is to be expected given most active posters are UKIP members. A view from outside is always gives food for thought.

Like it or not, modern politics are personality driven. We see all the media attention on RKS - I note a yet to be confirmed report that he will be on Any Questions again.

At the risk of getting my head bitten off, I believe we will simply get a far bigger share of the votes with this man than any other alternative.

And with all the caveats, peoples laudablre and natural loyalties etc etc that is what matters

mkpdavies · 09-12-2004, 02:45 PM

Idatakiller,

I am not going to fob you off with any excuses, we are going through some growing pains at the moment, and I hope they work themselves out soon. They WILL go away sooner or later, and those of us that care for party will still knuckle down and do our best to get the message out.

I hadn't heard of anyone in the party in 2003 when I joined. I joined anyway as it was the only game in town, if you were opposed to the EU.

This is still the case today, so what other choice do we have? Sure we have arguments over the leadership. Which party or organisation doesn't at some point? It's a shame it came at this late stage of an election cycle, but what can you do?

Join us, and help make a difference. Together we can stop the plan to dissolve Britain!

08-12-2004, 04:28 PM	#42 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,843 Party: Libertarian Party	Guys, I understand that this is an emotive issue, but can we calm it down a bit please. I am bored of deleting message after message, and I am tempted to do the same here. Any further quips or tirades and I will chop them. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

08-12-2004, 04:53 PM	#45 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,843 Party: Libertarian Party	No not big brother, but big mutha, me I didn't delete the big post for that very reason John. I get accused by both sides of being unfair, I try to be as fair as possible, but I am only human. The best solution is for neither side to attack the other in a personal way. I want a fair fact based debate, it is like walking the tightrope keeping it that way, this is where I need all of you to help me! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

08-12-2004, 07:20 PM	#47 (permalink)
ldatakiller Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 25	Re Nigel Garage I have written a couple of times on this Forum & read a lot more. I am against Britain being in Europe & am not a member of ANY Political party, Group or Cabal etc. My real name is Peter Lindley (before anyone starts saying I'm hiding behind a psudonym). Until Kilroy joined UKIP I had never heard of Nigel Farage, or anyone else in UKIP. I got interested (like many others), after Kilroy raised UKIP's profile to show that it "could" make a difference & it was not just a fringe group. I now see that I have been very much mistaken so far. My observations so far for what they are worth:- 1) Nigel Farage is a power hungry Politician & nothing more. 2) Roger Knapman is Mr invisible (can I get some of his invisibility serum please.). 3) Nigel Garage seems to have a better understanding of people OUTSIDE of UKIP than many of you do. 4) Many on this Forum seem to be pre-occupied with being on Knapmans side or Kilroys side. 5) I have only see UKIP do TWO things since the Euro elections (Nigel Farge a couple of weeks ago) (I'm sure you all remember), & Kilroy with his questions to the Euro Parliament. 6) Kilroy,whether he is mr right or not, is UKIP's only way of getting ANYWHERE near an election result that can help to make a difference. 7) UKIP leadership is self centered, power hungry & INVISIBLE. 8) I & my wife want to join UKIP but so far all I have seen is a party at war with itself & blaming all the ills of the world on Kilroy. 9) The NEC person (not sure of her name), is definately RUDE, RUDE,RUDE & not who I would want in any position of power over me (unless I joined an S & M club which I won't). WHERE IS ALL THE INFORMATION ON WHAT IS HAPPENING BETWEEN NOW & THE GENERAL ELECTION, INVISIBLE LIKE THE LEADERSHIP. I don't care who runs UKIP, but if you want my wife's vote & mine, get your Bl£$%dy act together QUICK. I am sure there are many others who feel like me as well. I look forward to your constructive retorts, criticisms & even maybe a couple of nice ones too.

09-12-2004, 02:45 PM	#50 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,843 Party: Libertarian Party	Idatakiller, I am not going to fob you off with any excuses, we are going through some growing pains at the moment, and I hope they work themselves out soon. They WILL go away sooner or later, and those of us that care for party will still knuckle down and do our best to get the message out. I hadn't heard of anyone in the party in 2003 when I joined. I joined anyway as it was the only game in town, if you were opposed to the EU. This is still the case today, so what other choice do we have? Sure we have arguments over the leadership. Which party or organisation doesn't at some point? It's a shame it came at this late stage of an election cycle, but what can you do? Join us, and help make a difference. Together we can stop the plan to dissolve Britain! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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08-12-2004, 04:31 PM	#43 (permalink)
johnwest Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Suffolk Posts: 827 Party: UKIP	By the way, answer the points I made. As I said before it would take someone with a far, far better argument against the leadership to rattle me. Don't mistake boredom with your constant attacks as being rattled.

08-12-2004, 04:42 PM	#44 (permalink)
johnwest Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Suffolk Posts: 827 Party: UKIP	So much for democracy! I think you will find that Garage attacked my original post. I would have thought I have the right to reply to any attacks made on me or the subject covered in the post as long as I don't resort to using bad language or remarks that could be regarded as breaking the libel laws. We don't need Orwell's 'Big Brother' on this forum.

08-12-2004, 05:06 PM	#46 (permalink)
johnwest Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Suffolk Posts: 827 Party: UKIP	That's fine. I, of course, have no wish to insult others. Unfortunately our future is at stake. Sometimes, I get rather fed up with those who can't concentrate on the big picture and seem to be more concerned on pushing a policy that might split the only party that could save our nation. I know of many who would walk if Kilroy became leader. All this could have been prevented if Kilroy had waited. A few more years of this and it will too late for this land and her people. I don't wish to betray all those who died for us in two wars. Let's fight the election, not each other!

08-12-2004, 08:13 PM	#48 (permalink)
C_steam Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Paddling up 5hit creek..... Posts: 7,711	How about a 'nice one!' To take your points in order 1 - Not sure - don't have enough personal evidence, but I suspect you're right. 2,3 - agree. 4 - difficult issue, people tend to take sides. My preference is to try and ignore the personalities (in one case, easy, in the other, not easy!) and ask for strong leadership, whoever gives it. 5 - agree - see my posts on 'Press releases' 6 - Partial agreement - Kilroy has his faults but press presence, media relations and being in tune with the public are his strengths. we need these. 7 - or just plain weak. Following the 'manifesto' debacle, I'm tempted to say 'Incompetent' also. If nothing significant happens in the interim, the next AGM should be interesting! 8 - Join now. You get a nice card. It feels better to criticise from the inside! 9 - I think she was provoked! I second your statement in caps!

08-12-2004, 08:15 PM	#49 (permalink)
jp Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,000	There is an inevitable amount of introspection on this board which is to be expected given most active posters are UKIP members. A view from outside is always gives food for thought. Like it or not, modern politics are personality driven. We see all the media attention on RKS - I note a yet to be confirmed report that he will be on Any Questions again. At the risk of getting my head bitten off, I believe we will simply get a far bigger share of the votes with this man than any other alternative. And with all the caveats, peoples laudablre and natural loyalties etc etc that is what matters