Paul Sykes gets his coat!

mkpdavies · 04-10-2004, 11:07 PM

Paul Sykes has gone back to supporting the Conservative party, after getting upset with RKS remarks about killing the Tories.

Sky News reported that he has contributed £6000 000 over the last 10 years, and that the Conservatives apparent hardening of their position on the EU has helped make his mind up.

If this is all true I just don't understand it. He must have felt strongly to ditch the Tories 10 years ago and pour all that cash into, let's face it, big gamble. Now, when the Tories are on their backs, and UKIP look like doing something, he abandons his investment and decides the Tories will not sell us out again (against all historical experience to the contrary).

Is the real deal here that he is miffed thaqt RKS is not getting put straight INTO phpbb_the top job as he stated he favoured before? Either way, it comes as a blow to UKIP, as it needs all the funds it can get at this stage of it's life.

I just hope the popularity it has gained over the last year means more big backers on top of lots of smaller incomes.

I doubt my small contributions and efforts to buy stuff from the shop is going to have the same power as Sykes!

Anthony Butcher · 04-10-2004, 11:17 PM

Well, this is probably a good thing in the long run. Financial backers should not have any say whatsoever in the running of the party beyond that of normal members. If the party gave in to his blackmail, it would be no different to the Labour party selling out to just about every big corporation in Britain.

I can't seem to find any references to this story though... do you have a source on the web, or was it only on Sky news?

mkpdavies · 05-10-2004, 09:59 AM

Sorry, I only saw it on Sky news. Today they are talking about it again, but have changed a couple of things. Now they are saying he donated 14 million and they have dropped the UKIP's postion as being the reason for him leaving. Rather it is the shift by the Tories.

I was listening to Redwood at their confrence, and he certainly hit a lot of right notes with me. Persecution of the motorist, over regulation of everything and a number of other good points. The problem is we all know what will happen IF(no chance) the Tories did gat back INTO phpbb_government. Redwood, would be sidelined and the usual stealth handover of power to the EU would take place.

I still find it amazing that Sykes thinks the Tories are now absolutley to be trusted on this issue. Just, again this morning I have heared various Tories trotting out the usual rubbish about wanting some powers back, but pulling out would be wrong as we need to be in for trade.

I agree, that if he was trying to blackmail us INTO phpbb_do things his way, then good riddence! We still need the cash to be able to fight a reasonable campaign though, so I hope our leadership has something up their sleeves!

mkpdavies · 05-10-2004, 10:20 AM

Nigel Farage has just commented on Sky News that we as a party, and that includes RKS, need to reflect on what was said at the conference. In other words he agrees that the language of killing the Tories and standing in areas where the Con or Lab MP are anti-EU is wrong.

I can see the party has a bit of a split here. One half that has no intention of ever trusting any of the main parties again, and want to try and win power themselves. The other that wants to put pressure on each of the main parties MP's to try and get the result of halting further EU integration without aqctualy having any power.

You could say the second option is a more realistic goal, especially in the short term. I totaly disagree though, as I don't believe for one minute that any of the main parties will stop the manipulation of Britain INTO phpbb_a superstate. The Tories are actualy the most dangerous, as they say they are anti-EU(or most of them do), but when in power they do exactly the opposite.

I hope UKIP goes down the route of fighting to win power. I hope people like Nigel Farage, who I think is a powerful talker, come to feel the same. I personaly will loose heart in the UKIP if it becomes official policy that all we are is a pressure group. The conference voted massivley in favour of standing in ever seat and the leadership of UKIP need to represent the views of the party at large!

Anthony Butcher · 05-10-2004, 11:12 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3715446.stm

Quote:

UKIP's would-be leader Robert Kilroy-Silk's declaration he wanted to "kill" the Tories is understood to have been the final straw for Mr Sykes, who has twice left the Conservative Party because of its policy on Europe.

I reckon he realised that the party wasn't going to let him run the agenda and had a tantrum.

Quote:

UKIP MEP Mr Farage said the party had lost sight of its key objective amid the euphoria over recent election results. "We have never been about UKIP as a party, as a tribe, being the most important thing," he told Today. "The most important thing to us is we get out of the EU and get back to a simply free trade agreement. "In my opinion, we should not fighting against sitting Tory and Labour MPs who are prepared to say the right things."

I think that Mr Farage should stop this now. The party voted massively against his motion and he should stick by that and support our decision.

shadbolt · 05-10-2004, 11:27 AM

I heard on the grapevine that Sykes wanted RKS to be leader and was going to withdraw funding if he didnt get that. ironic therefore that he would give his reason for withdrawing support as that RKS wanted 'to kill the Tories off'. Someone is being economical with the truth here and I suspect it is Bill Sykes.

This reveals that Sykes was not/ is not an idealist wanting to preserve British sovereignity, he has ulterior motives and we are probably better rid of him. If he believes the Tories are a real proposition then how naieve can one be.

UKIP's real lever on the electorate is that all the other parties are despicably dishonest and that UKIP are offering a clean slate. Lets make that platform, though Howard has also tried to say the same thing the fact is they are tarnished and will trip up within weeks, trust me.

Anthony Butcher · 05-10-2004, 11:27 AM

Telegraph Article

Quote:

Mr Sykes said that UKIP had "blown it" by deciding at its conference at the weekend to stand against the Tories in every constituency, rejecting calls not to challenge Tory MPs regarded as Eurosceptic. Robert Kilroy-Silk, the former chat show host and UKIP's best-known politician, was instrumental in that decision. He said UKIP should kill the dying Tory party not give it the kiss of life. Although Mr Sykes had wanted Mr Kilroy-Silk to become UKIP's leader, they have fallen out over the new aggressive strategy.

Firstly, what did Paul Sykes expect from Mr Kilroy Silk? Sykes was the one blackmailing the party INTO phpbb_making Kilroy-Silk the leader. It seems to me that Sykes doesn't really know what he wants at all and is just playing games. Now he is making himself important to the Tories by doing this during their conference.

Secondly, the issue was never whether to not stand against euro-sceptic MPs; that never came up for a vote. We did vote on whether to stand against MPs who give a written undertaking to stand against EU membership, which is very different. No MP would/could ever give such an undertaking because they would be kicked out of their party for it.

Therefore I conclude that this cannot be the real reason that Sykes has left the party; it is simply nonsense. He could never have expected a single MP to come out and say that they are completely against EU membership.

Anthony Butcher · 05-10-2004, 11:45 AM

From the same Telegraph article:

Quote:

Leading Tories, including John Redwood, who returned to the shadow cabinet last month, have been in secret talks with Mr Sykes for weeks. Mr Sykes, who made his fortune by exporting second-hand buses and lorries, said he welcomed Mr Howard's tougher line on Europe.

This is the reality of it - the Tories are going to allow him influence, whereas UKIP said no to his interference.

But then we always knew that the major parties were there to be bought by big business and rich people. This reflects very badly on the Tory party, in my opinion.

If Mr Sykes genuinely believed in the eur-sceptic cause, I don't see how he can possibly team up with a party dedicated to remaining in the EU.

annswilliams · 05-10-2004, 05:38 PM

My first thoughts after hearing the news about Sykes' withdrawal from UKIP was that he had been "nobbled" by the Tory party after our good result against them at Hartlepool. As our biggest backer he would have been an obvious target. The news that he had been in talks with them for some time comes then as no surprise.

Having heard him on Radio 2's Jeremy Vine programme today, Mr Sykes comes across as rather muddled with regard to his views on Europe. I am not sure if he ever understood the situation we are in with the EU and how we have to act if we are to deal with it in the interests of Britain. If he thinks that the Tories can do anything about removing control from Brussels, he obviously has no idea what the situation is at all! None of the major parties will ever be able to do that. Anyone who takes the time to research what is really going on between Britain and Brussels will know that they are all fully paid-up members of EU political parties and so have every intention of "playing their part" in Europe come what may.

I am very sad for the UKIP that we have lost such a big backer, and for the likes of Nigel Farage who have worked so hard and put our case so well in the media and in dealing with RKS's outspoken and thoughtless remarks.

I fervently hope that the UKIP will be able to carry on doing so well. To that end may I suggest a strategy? Can we afford regular "in your face" advertising in national daily papers putting our case to the public? Can we afford more leaflets which the faithful can put through our neighbours' doors - not just when an election is due but continually so that the message is always in front of people? Can we have a continual occasional list of meetings around the country where speakers like Nigel can spread the word to more people?

UKIP needs to be in front of people all the time, and we cannot rely on the EU-funded and -supporting media all of whom seem only too anxious to pick up only the bad points of the party and rubbish it to the electorate.

And one last thing - the best man for the job of party leader is - NO CONTEST - Nigel Farage. A brilliant speaker who deals honestly and frankly with everyone and is never "off message" - he knows exactly what we are about and how we can achieve it. In my opinion, RKS is a loose cannon and one we will probably rue the day we ever allowed on board.

mkpdavies · 05-10-2004, 05:47 PM

The good news is party membership has soared = more cash, whether it is enough to have a continous media campaign, I doubt. So individual members need to spread the word at every opportunity. I know I do, and have managed to open the eyes of some and at least get people thinking about it. I have failed so far with the father in law, but I will keep trying!

As to Nigel Farage, I have a great deal of respect for him. For me though I see no reason to even talk about Roger Knapman leaving, as he has done a fine job and deserves to lead INTO phpbb_the next election. After that I think a contest could be in order if we don't win :wink:

As I said in another post though. Farage has shown a bit of weakness in his implication that we should not have dreamed of attacking the Tories so hard. This party owes no loyalty to the Tories who have sold us out to the EU by stealth and will do so again. RKS was right with this, and if that mean it shakes a few uncommited people from the tree, then so be it.

Just a shame that the first person to fall out was loaded! :?

04-10-2004, 11:07 PM	#1 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,615	Paul Sykes gets his coat! Paul Sykes has gone back to supporting the Conservative party, after getting upset with RKS remarks about killing the Tories. Sky News reported that he has contributed £6000 000 over the last 10 years, and that the Conservatives apparent hardening of their position on the EU has helped make his mind up. If this is all true I just don't understand it. He must have felt strongly to ditch the Tories 10 years ago and pour all that cash into, let's face it, big gamble. Now, when the Tories are on their backs, and UKIP look like doing something, he abandons his investment and decides the Tories will not sell us out again (against all historical experience to the contrary). Is the real deal here that he is miffed thaqt RKS is not getting put straight INTO phpbb_the top job as he stated he favoured before? Either way, it comes as a blow to UKIP, as it needs all the funds it can get at this stage of it's life. I just hope the popularity it has gained over the last year means more big backers on top of lots of smaller incomes. I doubt my small contributions and efforts to buy stuff from the shop is going to have the same power as Sykes! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

05-10-2004, 09:59 AM	#3 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,615	Sorry, I only saw it on Sky news. Today they are talking about it again, but have changed a couple of things. Now they are saying he donated 14 million and they have dropped the UKIP's postion as being the reason for him leaving. Rather it is the shift by the Tories. I was listening to Redwood at their confrence, and he certainly hit a lot of right notes with me. Persecution of the motorist, over regulation of everything and a number of other good points. The problem is we all know what will happen IF(no chance) the Tories did gat back INTO phpbb_government. Redwood, would be sidelined and the usual stealth handover of power to the EU would take place. I still find it amazing that Sykes thinks the Tories are now absolutley to be trusted on this issue. Just, again this morning I have heared various Tories trotting out the usual rubbish about wanting some powers back, but pulling out would be wrong as we need to be in for trade. I agree, that if he was trying to blackmail us INTO phpbb_do things his way, then good riddence! We still need the cash to be able to fight a reasonable campaign though, so I hope our leadership has something up their sleeves! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

05-10-2004, 10:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,615	Nigel Farage has just commented on Sky News that we as a party, and that includes RKS, need to reflect on what was said at the conference. In other words he agrees that the language of killing the Tories and standing in areas where the Con or Lab MP are anti-EU is wrong. I can see the party has a bit of a split here. One half that has no intention of ever trusting any of the main parties again, and want to try and win power themselves. The other that wants to put pressure on each of the main parties MP's to try and get the result of halting further EU integration without aqctualy having any power. You could say the second option is a more realistic goal, especially in the short term. I totaly disagree though, as I don't believe for one minute that any of the main parties will stop the manipulation of Britain INTO phpbb_a superstate. The Tories are actualy the most dangerous, as they say they are anti-EU(or most of them do), but when in power they do exactly the opposite. I hope UKIP goes down the route of fighting to win power. I hope people like Nigel Farage, who I think is a powerful talker, come to feel the same. I personaly will loose heart in the UKIP if it becomes official policy that all we are is a pressure group. The conference voted massivley in favour of standing in ever seat and the leadership of UKIP need to represent the views of the party at large! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

05-10-2004, 11:27 AM	#6 (permalink)
shadbolt Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Richmond, London Posts: 121	Sykes not serious about indedendence, what the Dickens! I heard on the grapevine that Sykes wanted RKS to be leader and was going to withdraw funding if he didnt get that. ironic therefore that he would give his reason for withdrawing support as that RKS wanted 'to kill the Tories off'. Someone is being economical with the truth here and I suspect it is Bill Sykes. This reveals that Sykes was not/ is not an idealist wanting to preserve British sovereignity, he has ulterior motives and we are probably better rid of him. If he believes the Tories are a real proposition then how naieve can one be. UKIP's real lever on the electorate is that all the other parties are despicably dishonest and that UKIP are offering a clean slate. Lets make that platform, though Howard has also tried to say the same thing the fact is they are tarnished and will trip up within weeks, trust me. __________________ God Bless England

05-10-2004, 05:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,615	The good news is party membership has soared = more cash, whether it is enough to have a continous media campaign, I doubt. So individual members need to spread the word at every opportunity. I know I do, and have managed to open the eyes of some and at least get people thinking about it. I have failed so far with the father in law, but I will keep trying! As to Nigel Farage, I have a great deal of respect for him. For me though I see no reason to even talk about Roger Knapman leaving, as he has done a fine job and deserves to lead INTO phpbb_the next election. After that I think a contest could be in order if we don't win :wink: As I said in another post though. Farage has shown a bit of weakness in his implication that we should not have dreamed of attacking the Tories so hard. This party owes no loyalty to the Tories who have sold us out to the EU by stealth and will do so again. RKS was right with this, and if that mean it shakes a few uncommited people from the tree, then so be it. Just a shame that the first person to fall out was loaded! :? __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

04-10-2004, 11:17 PM	#2 (permalink)
Anthony Butcher Administrator Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Long Ashton, Bristol Posts: 9,538 Party: None	Well, this is probably a good thing in the long run. Financial backers should not have any say whatsoever in the running of the party beyond that of normal members. If the party gave in to his blackmail, it would be no different to the Labour party selling out to just about every big corporation in Britain. I can't seem to find any references to this story though... do you have a source on the web, or was it only on Sky news?

05-10-2004, 05:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
annswilliams Newbie Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1	My first thoughts after hearing the news about Sykes' withdrawal from UKIP was that he had been "nobbled" by the Tory party after our good result against them at Hartlepool. As our biggest backer he would have been an obvious target. The news that he had been in talks with them for some time comes then as no surprise. Having heard him on Radio 2's Jeremy Vine programme today, Mr Sykes comes across as rather muddled with regard to his views on Europe. I am not sure if he ever understood the situation we are in with the EU and how we have to act if we are to deal with it in the interests of Britain. If he thinks that the Tories can do anything about removing control from Brussels, he obviously has no idea what the situation is at all! None of the major parties will ever be able to do that. Anyone who takes the time to research what is really going on between Britain and Brussels will know that they are all fully paid-up members of EU political parties and so have every intention of "playing their part" in Europe come what may. I am very sad for the UKIP that we have lost such a big backer, and for the likes of Nigel Farage who have worked so hard and put our case so well in the media and in dealing with RKS's outspoken and thoughtless remarks. I fervently hope that the UKIP will be able to carry on doing so well. To that end may I suggest a strategy? Can we afford regular "in your face" advertising in national daily papers putting our case to the public? Can we afford more leaflets which the faithful can put through our neighbours' doors - not just when an election is due but continually so that the message is always in front of people? Can we have a continual occasional list of meetings around the country where speakers like Nigel can spread the word to more people? UKIP needs to be in front of people all the time, and we cannot rely on the EU-funded and -supporting media all of whom seem only too anxious to pick up only the bad points of the party and rubbish it to the electorate. And one last thing - the best man for the job of party leader is - NO CONTEST - Nigel Farage. A brilliant speaker who deals honestly and frankly with everyone and is never "off message" - he knows exactly what we are about and how we can achieve it. In my opinion, RKS is a loose cannon and one we will probably rue the day we ever allowed on board.

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