Lafayette

There isn't a nation on the planet that doesn't have more than a few blots in its history. The UK is no different, but it really has nothing to apologize for at the same time. The Empire was just a product of its time, not the fulfilled desire of some evil collective national consciousness. As for slavery, that is something that more nations than Britain have to feel bad about. Haiti were French slaves, the US had slaves until 1865, Brazil had slaves after that, and the list could go on and on. It's just one of those injustices that we have to hope never happens again on such a large scale. This kind of makes me think of Monty Python's the Life of Brian. "Bloody Romans! What have they ever given us?" "Well, it's safe to walk the streets at night, public education, etc." Same could be said of the British. They took some things wherever they went, but they also gave back quite a bit more. Be proud of who you are and your past. It made you who are you are today.

shadbolt

I also have a reply for bexy.

Of course I realise that Britain profitted from slavery, as has every nation including ancient Egypt (and actually Egypt now). But the fact is we were the first to relent and get the world sorted insofar as it was in our power to do, as in so many matters.

This nation has done more for the world than any other, and it irritates the hell out of me that we have people like bexy who instead of selling Britain, wallows in criticism of us. People like bexy do nothing for Britain's reputation. Is she a Liberal?, like Jenny tonge, the MP I love to castiagte, who identifies more closely with Palestinian terrorists than English fox hunters. Britain will never rise from the mire it is in until these people are relegated to the background.

God willing, we will trounce the Liberals at the next election, it is my dream to see all the mainstream parties cudgelled at the next election.

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mkpdavies

Don't forget that the British people themselves have been slaves of the Romans and for a long time most of the population were effectivley slaves with the upper classes and land owners paying peanuts and treating their "staff" terribly. As other people say it is history, and the British can be proud of what they have become today and should maintain and build on it. If the Brits went on about how badly they were treated by the Romans/Vikings/whoever then we would be stuck in the dark ages still. I really do wonder why some people feel the need to rubbish this country for mistakes (yes it has made a few) in the past.

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Kofi

Yes, without a doubt the British Empire resulted in many benefits for the colonies - but a bureaucracy and government, especially in the transformed state that was handed back over, (to most sub-saharan states especially) was not one of them. The last 50 years of sub-saharan dictatorship, pestilence and downright 'thugocracy' masquerading as democaracy is testament to that. Having grown up in West Africa over 14 years I could go on about this particular issue for ... well, centuries - if I had the longevity.
But suffice for me to say this, (don't get me wrong I know you did not make this particular statement in an outright derogatory or even racist fashion), - practically all ex-colonies DID have bureaucracies and effective governance pre-colonialisation. And it tends to strike at best (in my view) of ignorance when people make statements like this and at worst of, well, the dreaded 'r' word which allow me to repeat myself I don't accuse you of. Remember that in the Gold Coast (now Ghana) for example Baden Powell (him of the scouts) finally defeated the Ashanti only at the turn of the last century. They had their own Kingdom, Army, Government, Bureaucracy... and they don't now (well not in the same way) - thanks to colonialism.


Here, here. Spot on. People in the colonies no longer give two hoots about the (negative) colonial impact on their recent history. They mostly know it just does not wash. Cue Serria Leone - they practially begged for salvation through the former colonialists (UK) from their own bloodthirsty (in more ways than one) country men. Doe, Taylor, Thompson... Some politicians however use this 'colonial responsiblity' thing (no need to name names) for inferior-strategy brownie-pointing. I'm afraid I have to admit though that for a lot of the unsophisticated, largely uneducated populations in some of these nations there is a significant (though not the majority) number of lazy thinkers who subscribe to this weak "pass-the-buck" mode of thinking.


Yes. It was "normal behaviour at the time" and to be honest with all of you it is STILL "normal behaviour" to some extent, depending where you live today. OK people are not being shackled to girders on container ships and shipped to California to work as domestic servants. But I can assure you that there are 'employment' relationships that are considered 'OK' or 'Normal' today in many third-world, middle-eastern, and even Western countries that are pushing the boat out a bit. Remember the Chinese Cockle pickers at Morcambe Bay?

My Uncle (Dad's older brother) was 15 when he was told to jump INTO phpbb_the back of a truck with a load of other boys from his school to go and watch a film. A few weeks later he found himself facing Japanese soldiers in Burma with the Royal West African Frontier Force. (He's still alive and kicking if you want to verify my claims). You are absolutely right. We are not told today how much the Empire contributed to preventing Hitler's Germany from realising its ambitions - and in my opinion many 'lesser' nations are not given credit where it is due. I personally believe that there are (ex-empire) geographical regions of the world, mainly commonwealth countries today, that the UK should be influencing, mutually benefitting from and working with, in much a similar way as the French do with many of their ex-colonies.

And yes, I also believe there is much equity to be gained from that than the EU

Lafayette

Excellent post Kofi. The last lines are especially sapient. Britain could recover whatever losses it might face from withdrawal from the EU by working more closely with the Commonwealth Nations. Maintain the trade agreements forged with EU, but the possibilities of strengthened ties with former colonies are great.

LP-2004

Nice post kofi, there there is just a few things I didnt understand.

We dont claim everything Britain has done in the past had a positive effect on the local inhabitants.

It was actually people from China Town in Liverpool, who had the chinese cockle pickers out on morecambe bay when they sadle died. Surely your not blaming the average British person for bringing in immigrant
workers. Im sure it happens, but most of the time when these cheap labour force rings are uncovered its people who are from the same country as the victims who are to blame.

Human trafficking has reached staggering proportions, affecting more than 700,000 people a year, says a US State Department report. Most of the victims of trafficking are women and children.
The americans have a task force "to safeguard the vulnerable, to punish the traffickers, to care for their victims and to prevent future trafficking". Many countries are working to end the problem but there is atleast 23 that are failing to do so:

Albania, Bahrain, Belarus, Bosnia-Hercegovina, Burma, Democratic, Republic of Congo, Gabon, Greece, Indonesia, Israel, Kazakstan, Lebanon
Malaysia, Pakistan, Qatar, Romania, Russia, Saudi Arabia, South Korea
Sudan, Turkey, United Arab Emirates and Yugoslavia.

Why dont people blame these countries for slavery?

In my opinion we should prioritize trade with country's that still have the queen as the head of state. Countries that have got their independence have made it quite clear they dont want British involvement in their country.