Slovakia denies entry to Kosovo passport holders.

BonnieDundee · 06-08-2008, 05:01 AM

Published: Friday 1 August 2008

Slovakia will be the only EU country to deny holders of the new Kosovo passports entering their country, EurActiv Slovakia reports. The former Serbian province has begun issuing the new documents on Wednesday (30 July) and called on all countries, including those opposing its independence, to accept them.

The country’s Foreign Affairs and Interior ministries said they will refuse any official documents coming from Pristina, including the new passports, although they comply with international standards and are equipped with electronically readable data.

Slovakia’s Foreign Ministry has already made clear that owners of a Kosovo passport, even if they were granted a Schengen visa, would not be allowed to enter the country. It was not yet clear how the EU intends to deal with the situation.

According to a foreign ministry spokesman, Bratislava will, however, continue to accept Serbian passports as well as the substitute passports issued by UNMIK, the interim UN administration in Pristina. Montenegro and Macedonia have taken the same position.

UNMIK has provided Kosovo citizens with travel documents since 2001, but mission officials said they will not issue new documents any more. This decision comes at a time when many Kosovo-Albanians, who live and work abroad, are in Kosovo on holiday – a visit they traditionally use to renew their travel documents, writes Balkan Insight, an independent news website.

For the Serbian minority living in Kosovo, Slovakia’s decision does not change much, as Kosovo’s new constitution allows them to hold double citizenship, so they can easily travel with the documents issued by Belgrade.

Bratislava shares Belgrade’s view that Pristina’s unilateral declaration of independence was not in line with international law and that the break-away province still belongs to Serbia. There are no indications that Slovakia would change its stance soon, despite an earlier pledge to review the situation according to the latest developments.

Ties between Slovakia and Serbia are generally very close. Apart from the small, 50,000-strong Slovak minority living in the Serbian Vojvodina region, Belgrade is the biggest beneficiary of the Slovak Official Development Assistance (ODA).

EurActiv.com - Slovakia denies entry to Kosovo passport holders | EU - European Information on Enlargement & Neighbours

Personally I think this is outrageous hypocrisy from people who whine about being part of Germany and the Eastern bloc. I really hope my taxes don't go to them and the British gov't refuses to allow their passports. Hell I think we should refuse to recognise them.

BonnieDundee · 06-08-2008, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Ties between Slovakia and Serbia are generally very close. Apart from the small, 50,000-strong Slovak minority living in the Serbian Vojvodina region, Belgrade is the biggest beneficiary of the Slovak Official Development Assistance (ODA).

One wonders how much of that comes from Western european nations.

I can hardly wait for Serbia to join the EU, oh what fun!

Aardvark · 06-08-2008, 08:13 AM

Kosovo is not recognised as independent by several countries. The independence was generated by the expulsion of large numbers of Serbs from the territory and the migration of Albanians from Albania proper into south Serbia. Parts of Kosovo haven't been Albanian for centuries and it is like making Yorkshire part of Wales because Welsh was spoken there in the seventh century.

There is a move across Albania, Kosovo and parts of Macedonia to create a greater Albania that dismembers Macedonia, Serbia (still some ethnic Albanian villages within Serbia itself) and Greece (historically there is an Albanian community in northern Greece, although the Greeks will point to a Greek minority in Albania).

The Albanians blame the Brits for the current mess as at the end of the Second Balkan War the UK drew the boundaries of modern Albania (I'm never sure if they are still counting, must be well into double figures by now).

Slovakia is entitled to refuse to recognise any country that doesn't meet certain international standards. The fear is that recognition for Kosovo will lead to UN and EU support of secessionist ethnic parties all over the world and Russia will not recognise Kosovo on that basis. Russia would see a hundred Chechnyas and a million dead if every ethnic minority were to gain independence.

The UK and Ireland are in an invidious position. Recognition of Kosovo gives succour to the IRA who could argue for parts of the UK to be seceded - south Armagh, half of Fermanagh, parts of Derry. The logic is the same. Kill enough of your opponents, ethnically cleanse others and you're on your way.

Kosovo's current leadership have allowed the ethnic cleansing of Serbs from cities like Prizren, where the cathedral and nearly 40 other churches were destroyed in an act of cultural vandalism equating to Karadzjic's wanton destruction of mosques in Tuzla. Two wrongs don't make a right. They claim to be protectors of the country's heritage, but many Orthodox priests have been killed trying to protect some of the greatest surviving religious art in the Balkans, which has now been looted or destroyed. The Albanian extremists are getting away with murder, literally, under the auspices of the UN and the EU.

BonnieDundee · 07-08-2008, 05:30 AM

Bottom line as long as a little pragmaticism and common sense is used, ie there are viable states created, self-determination is a very good thing as it is in this example.

The events you talk of happened a century ago and more for the most part, centuries before that the Albanians controlled Kosovo and most of the Balkans, what really matters is today and today Kosovo is overwhelmingly Albanian. I think the Serb areas on the borders should be allowed to become part of Serbia but the rest should decide its own future. And the Serbs are hardly blameless where ethnic cleansing comes into it.

If those parts on the border of Northern Ireland wish to become part of Eire they should be allowed too, many voted to in the 20s but the Irish took money instead.

Do you think India, America or Ireland should be part of Britain still? Within the bounds of commonsense nations should be allowed self-determination. I don't care what Slovakia does except where its relation to my gov't and tax money come into it, I don't want to pay tax money to some extremely hypocritical neo-imperialist morons.

Aardvark · 07-08-2008, 06:05 AM

I don't think you could really accuse the Slovaks of Imperialism. They claim sovereignty over Slovakia and nowhere else. For centuries they were controlled by other countries and I don't think either of us know enough of Slovak history to point at a Slovak Empire in some past century.

The fact that Serbs were involved in ethnic cleansing doesn't make the ethnic cleansing of Serbs legitimate. Kosovo Polje is symbolic in Serbian history yet the Albanians have ethnically cleansed it of Serbs.

The intention to create a greater Albania is in the present not the past and your taxes are being spent in Macedonia, Serbia and Albania on trying to create stable democracies whilst many Albanians are working against peace and stability.

It would be nice for everyone to live in a country controlled by people of their own ethnicity, but there are many towns and cities that have been ethnically mixed for centuries, especially in the Balkans.

Where would you create a Roma country? The Roma are a distinct ethnic group and are scattered in small communities across Europe and Asia. Surely they are entitled to self-determination?

The Albanians have only become a majority in parts of Kosovo since UNMIK took over. Is it right that they should now be given that land on the basis of a spurious claim from the 14th century?

In fact the Albanians are a group of Illyric peoples with similar languages, but a Kosovo Albanian would not be understood in Tirana. Albanian as a language is a forced merging of 2 distinct languages that are like Bulgarian is to Serbo-Croat. I know a few words of official Albanian that I picked up in Albania. I used them in Tetovo a few weeks back and was told that I was using the wrong Albanian and not everyone would understand me. The Albanians outside of Albania don't speak official Albanian, with its emphasis on south Albanian. Indeed when I was in Peshkopi, in northern Albania, a lot of the older people wouldn't speak official Albanian.

We in the west have been taught a potted history of the Balkans and it is not a history a lot of Balkan people would recognise. I read a history of Bosnia (actually I only read 500 out of 600 pages as I had to return it) and it bears no relation to anything I have been taught in the west and little relation to what was spewed out by the telly during the Bosnian conflict. The Bosnian war was heavily influenced by outside influences as, oddly, most Bosnians didn't want to kill their neighbours and flatten their home cities in a pointless conflict. That's obvious as the cities had ancient centres with churches and mosques side by side as they had been for centuries, without conflict. Indeed if it were not for the Nazis there would have been no damage to the ancient synagogues of Sarajevo. In fact it is people who demanded self-determination for different races in an ethnically mixed community who are entirely to blame for hundreds of thousands of deaths. Self-determination is all very well, but I think human life is more valuable. Sometimes it is better to live in the country history allotted you rather than to look back at ancient wars and fight them over and over again.

Our Empire has withered on the vine and I see no point in trying to reunite with our former colonies in the USA, nor in trying to regain the whole Kingdom of Ireland nor the Dominion of India. They speak our language, what more do we need?

BonnieDundee · 07-08-2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

The fact that Serbs were involved in ethnic cleansing doesn't make the ethnic cleansing of Serbs legitimate. Kosovo Polje is symbolic in Serbian history yet the Albanians have ethnically cleansed it of Serbs.

I'm not saying this is a good thing, it is however only tangential to the point at hand.

Quote:

The intention to create a greater Albania is in the present not the past and your taxes are being spent in Macedonia, Serbia and Albania on trying to create stable democracies whilst many Albanians are working against peace and stability.

As far as I know Kosovo is an indepedent province at the moment.

Quote:

It would be nice for everyone to live in a country controlled by people of their own ethnicity, but there are many towns and cities that have been ethnically mixed for centuries, especially in the Balkans.

Where would you create a Roma country? The Roma are a distinct ethnic group and are scattered in small communities across Europe and Asia. Surely they are entitled to self-determination?

The Albanians have only become a majority in parts of Kosovo since UNMIK took over. Is it right that they should now be given that land on the basis of a spurious claim from the 14th century?

Those are small parts of Kosovo but if they were on the borders they should have gone to Serbia in my view. However Kosovo is viable enough and has little relation to a Roma state or to a city state.

Quote:

We in the west have been taught a potted history of the Balkans and it is not a history a lot of Balkan people would recognise. I read a history of Bosnia (actually I only read 500 out of 600 pages as I had to return it) and it bears no relation to anything I have been taught in the west and little relation to what was spewed out by the telly during the Bosnian conflict. The Bosnian war was heavily influenced by outside influences as, oddly, most Bosnians didn't want to kill their neighbours and flatten their home cities in a pointless conflict. That's obvious as the cities had ancient centres with churches and mosques side by side as they had been for centuries, without conflict. Indeed if it were not for the Nazis there would have been no damage to the ancient synagogues of Sarajevo. In fact it is people who demanded self-determination for different races in an ethnically mixed community who are entirely to blame for hundreds of thousands of deaths. Self-determination is all very well, but I think human life is more valuable. Sometimes it is better to live in the country history allotted you rather than to look back at ancient wars and fight them over and over again.

Actually that is ********, it is just as much the people, particularly the Serbs, who fought against this self-determination who are responsible for the death and destruction. But still this is all largely tangential or irrelevant. The people of Kosovo have a viable state, they should be allowed to excercise their voice and have independence. The Slovaks are simply hypocrites.

Aardvark · 07-08-2008, 10:09 AM

Kosovo has declared independence. Some countries recognise that independence, some do not. It is not for us to interfere in those decisions. The Slovaks have their reasons for not recognising Kosovo. They are an independent nation and may make that decision if they so wish.

The idea that Serbs near the borders of Kosovo and 'Serbia' should abandon their family homes of centuries to comply with someone else's idea of self determination is pure evil. Ethnic cleansing is something that has to be stopped not encouraged by international organisations.

Kosovo is not 'viable'. It has few mineral resources, no banking system and an inadequate service sector. There are derelict Tito era factories. It has mass unemployment and a disproportionate number of the male population, especially graduates, work overseas (I think I read 40%). Every metalled road in Kosovo was built with EU funds (our taxes) and should you go there you will see EU flags everywhere. The EU runs the country and effectively subsidises the existence of virtually everyone.

When I said the self-determination was affected by outside influences I included Serbs in that. Republika Srpska was created by the Serbs to protect their minority. The Bosniacs (Muslims of Serb/Turkish descent) were supported by al Qaeda and many mosques have been ruined by having their beautiful artwork painted over with whitewash by the Wahabis both in Bosnia and Kosovo (go there if you don't believe me). The Croats were supported by their kin from Croatia.

Having wandered in the ruins of Mostar and Glogovacs where I worked and having been to Sarajevo and Pristina I can heartily recommend those who support self-determination in ethnically mixed communities to look at the graveyards and the burnt out streets and ask if it is worth it. The locals put pictures on the graves. Looking at the faces of hundreds of young men in Mostar killed within a few months of each other is salutary. One of my interpreters admitted that Serbs had done bad things to her , another killed his first Croat at the age of 14 whilst sniping from the burnt out shell of his home.

60% of the population of Bosnia Herzegovina, including expats, is female. The imbalance was caused by self-determination.

Kosovo was created out of ethnic cleansing and atrocities on both sides. It is funded by the EU and guess what currency is readily acceptable in all shops. Independence? Self-determination?

BonnieDundee · 08-08-2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Kosovo has declared independence. Some countries recognise that independence, some do not. It is not for us to interfere in those decisions. The Slovaks have their reasons for not recognising Kosovo. They are an independent nation and may make that decision if they so wish.

That is fine, but I can still be annoyed at Slovakia particularly when they get my tax funds through the bloody EU.

Quote:

The idea that Serbs near the borders of Kosovo and 'Serbia' should abandon their family homes of centuries to comply with someone else's idea of self determination is pure evil. Ethnic cleansing is something that has to be stopped not encouraged by international organisations.

It is of course wrong, I would have said those areas should be part of Serbia, However this does not mean I don't think Kosovo as whole should not have self-determination.

Quote:

Kosovo is not 'viable'. It has few mineral resources, no banking system and an inadequate service sector. There are derelict Tito era factories. It has mass unemployment and a disproportionate number of the male population, especially graduates, work overseas (I think I read 40%). Every metalled road in Kosovo was built with EU funds (our taxes) and should you go there you will see EU flags everywhere. The EU runs the country and effectively subsidises the existence of virtually everyone.

It certainly has another land and people to make a go at being viable. One can make similar argument about Britain today or any number of Africans countries. What matters is just a common sense judgement on size and population.

Quote:

When I said the self-determination was affected by outside influences I included Serbs in that. Republika Srpska was created by the Serbs to protect their minority. The Bosniacs (Muslims of Serb/Turkish descent) were supported by al Qaeda and many mosques have been ruined by having their beautiful artwork painted over with whitewash by the Wahabis both in Bosnia and Kosovo (go there if you don't believe me). The Croats were supported by their kin from Croatia.

So?

Quote:

Having wandered in the ruins of Mostar and Glogovacs where I worked and having been to Sarajevo and Pristina I can heartily recommend those who support self-determination in ethnically mixed communities to look at the graveyards and the burnt out streets and ask if it is worth it. The locals put pictures on the graves. Looking at the faces of hundreds of young men in Mostar killed within a few months of each other is salutary. One of my interpreters admitted that Serbs had done bad things to her , another killed his first Croat at the age of 14 whilst sniping from the burnt out shell of his home.

Hey it is better than allowing the Serbs to rule. Look what happened when they were in charge.The Butcher of Bosnia is now only being brought to trial. You are not giving much of argument, you asserting that because different groups may fight each other if they want to be free then they should all be slaves. Perhaps we should just allow the Germans, Russians or Turks back in?

Quote:

60% of the population of Bosnia Herzegovina, including expats, is female. The imbalance was caused by self-determination.

Kosovo was created out of ethnic cleansing and atrocities on both sides. It is funded by the EU and guess what currency is readily acceptable in all shops. Independence? Self-determination?

How does this change anything? Kosovo has a reasonable population, a reasonable size and wants to be independent. End of story.

One day the EU will say Britain is not viable and that we are a danger to minorites. In fact you already get remarks in that general direction about how our trade and economy would go greatly downhill without the EU and that the EU court of human rights and EU directives have done a great thing for minorities which British law neglected etc etc

Aardvark · 08-08-2008, 10:09 AM

Kosovo is not viable. It will seek to become part of Albania. That is the plan.

I note that you complain about your taxes being spent in Slovakia, but not in Kosovo which is administered by the EU. Much more EU money is spent per capita on tiny little Kosovo than is spent on Slovakia. I'd need to check, but I think you'll find, per capita, that more EU money is spent in Kosovo than almost any EU country. Kosovo is not in the EU and does not border an EU member state.

BonnieDundee · 08-08-2008, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Kosovo is not viable. It will seek to become part of Albania. That is the plan.

It hasn't done so far. It is viable in terms of size and population.

Quote:

I note that you complain about your taxes being spent in Slovakia, but not in Kosovo which is administered by the EU.

I'd rather they go to neither but Slovakia is the one who has taken this hypocritical and dreadful action we are talking about.

06-08-2008, 05:01 AM	#1 (permalink)
BonnieDundee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Between Mallaig and Cornwall. Posts: 2,809	Slovakia denies entry to Kosovo passport holders. Published: Friday 1 August 2008 Slovakia will be the only EU country to deny holders of the new Kosovo passports entering their country, EurActiv Slovakia reports. The former Serbian province has begun issuing the new documents on Wednesday (30 July) and called on all countries, including those opposing its independence, to accept them. The country’s Foreign Affairs and Interior ministries said they will refuse any official documents coming from Pristina, including the new passports, although they comply with international standards and are equipped with electronically readable data. Slovakia’s Foreign Ministry has already made clear that owners of a Kosovo passport, even if they were granted a Schengen visa, would not be allowed to enter the country. It was not yet clear how the EU intends to deal with the situation. According to a foreign ministry spokesman, Bratislava will, however, continue to accept Serbian passports as well as the substitute passports issued by UNMIK, the interim UN administration in Pristina. Montenegro and Macedonia have taken the same position. UNMIK has provided Kosovo citizens with travel documents since 2001, but mission officials said they will not issue new documents any more. This decision comes at a time when many Kosovo-Albanians, who live and work abroad, are in Kosovo on holiday – a visit they traditionally use to renew their travel documents, writes Balkan Insight, an independent news website. For the Serbian minority living in Kosovo, Slovakia’s decision does not change much, as Kosovo’s new constitution allows them to hold double citizenship, so they can easily travel with the documents issued by Belgrade. Bratislava shares Belgrade’s view that Pristina’s unilateral declaration of independence was not in line with international law and that the break-away province still belongs to Serbia. There are no indications that Slovakia would change its stance soon, despite an earlier pledge to review the situation according to the latest developments. Ties between Slovakia and Serbia are generally very close. Apart from the small, 50,000-strong Slovak minority living in the Serbian Vojvodina region, Belgrade is the biggest beneficiary of the Slovak Official Development Assistance (ODA). EurActiv.com - Slovakia denies entry to Kosovo passport holders \| EU - European Information on Enlargement & Neighbours Personally I think this is outrageous hypocrisy from people who whine about being part of Germany and the Eastern bloc. I really hope my taxes don't go to them and the British gov't refuses to allow their passports. Hell I think we should refuse to recognise them. __________________ "It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state." -Bruce Schneier How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and pss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.* Edward Abbey Leopold Kohr.

06-08-2008, 08:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,988	Kosovo is not recognised as independent by several countries. The independence was generated by the expulsion of large numbers of Serbs from the territory and the migration of Albanians from Albania proper into south Serbia. Parts of Kosovo haven't been Albanian for centuries and it is like making Yorkshire part of Wales because Welsh was spoken there in the seventh century. There is a move across Albania, Kosovo and parts of Macedonia to create a greater Albania that dismembers Macedonia, Serbia (still some ethnic Albanian villages within Serbia itself) and Greece (historically there is an Albanian community in northern Greece, although the Greeks will point to a Greek minority in Albania). The Albanians blame the Brits for the current mess as at the end of the Second Balkan War the UK drew the boundaries of modern Albania (I'm never sure if they are still counting, must be well into double figures by now). Slovakia is entitled to refuse to recognise any country that doesn't meet certain international standards. The fear is that recognition for Kosovo will lead to UN and EU support of secessionist ethnic parties all over the world and Russia will not recognise Kosovo on that basis. Russia would see a hundred Chechnyas and a million dead if every ethnic minority were to gain independence. The UK and Ireland are in an invidious position. Recognition of Kosovo gives succour to the IRA who could argue for parts of the UK to be seceded - south Armagh, half of Fermanagh, parts of Derry. The logic is the same. Kill enough of your opponents, ethnically cleanse others and you're on your way. Kosovo's current leadership have allowed the ethnic cleansing of Serbs from cities like Prizren, where the cathedral and nearly 40 other churches were destroyed in an act of cultural vandalism equating to Karadzjic's wanton destruction of mosques in Tuzla. Two wrongs don't make a right. They claim to be protectors of the country's heritage, but many Orthodox priests have been killed trying to protect some of the greatest surviving religious art in the Balkans, which has now been looted or destroyed. The Albanian extremists are getting away with murder, literally, under the auspices of the UN and the EU. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

07-08-2008, 05:30 AM	#4 (permalink)
BonnieDundee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Between Mallaig and Cornwall. Posts: 2,809	Bottom line as long as a little pragmaticism and common sense is used, ie there are viable states created, self-determination is a very good thing as it is in this example. The events you talk of happened a century ago and more for the most part, centuries before that the Albanians controlled Kosovo and most of the Balkans, what really matters is today and today Kosovo is overwhelmingly Albanian. I think the Serb areas on the borders should be allowed to become part of Serbia but the rest should decide its own future. And the Serbs are hardly blameless where ethnic cleansing comes into it. If those parts on the border of Northern Ireland wish to become part of Eire they should be allowed too, many voted to in the 20s but the Irish took money instead. Do you think India, America or Ireland should be part of Britain still? Within the bounds of commonsense nations should be allowed self-determination. I don't care what Slovakia does except where its relation to my gov't and tax money come into it, I don't want to pay tax money to some extremely hypocritical neo-imperialist morons. __________________ "It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state." -Bruce Schneier How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and pss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.* Edward Abbey Leopold Kohr.

07-08-2008, 06:05 AM	#5 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,988	I don't think you could really accuse the Slovaks of Imperialism. They claim sovereignty over Slovakia and nowhere else. For centuries they were controlled by other countries and I don't think either of us know enough of Slovak history to point at a Slovak Empire in some past century. The fact that Serbs were involved in ethnic cleansing doesn't make the ethnic cleansing of Serbs legitimate. Kosovo Polje is symbolic in Serbian history yet the Albanians have ethnically cleansed it of Serbs. The intention to create a greater Albania is in the present not the past and your taxes are being spent in Macedonia, Serbia and Albania on trying to create stable democracies whilst many Albanians are working against peace and stability. It would be nice for everyone to live in a country controlled by people of their own ethnicity, but there are many towns and cities that have been ethnically mixed for centuries, especially in the Balkans. Where would you create a Roma country? The Roma are a distinct ethnic group and are scattered in small communities across Europe and Asia. Surely they are entitled to self-determination? The Albanians have only become a majority in parts of Kosovo since UNMIK took over. Is it right that they should now be given that land on the basis of a spurious claim from the 14th century? In fact the Albanians are a group of Illyric peoples with similar languages, but a Kosovo Albanian would not be understood in Tirana. Albanian as a language is a forced merging of 2 distinct languages that are like Bulgarian is to Serbo-Croat. I know a few words of official Albanian that I picked up in Albania. I used them in Tetovo a few weeks back and was told that I was using the wrong Albanian and not everyone would understand me. The Albanians outside of Albania don't speak official Albanian, with its emphasis on south Albanian. Indeed when I was in Peshkopi, in northern Albania, a lot of the older people wouldn't speak official Albanian. We in the west have been taught a potted history of the Balkans and it is not a history a lot of Balkan people would recognise. I read a history of Bosnia (actually I only read 500 out of 600 pages as I had to return it) and it bears no relation to anything I have been taught in the west and little relation to what was spewed out by the telly during the Bosnian conflict. The Bosnian war was heavily influenced by outside influences as, oddly, most Bosnians didn't want to kill their neighbours and flatten their home cities in a pointless conflict. That's obvious as the cities had ancient centres with churches and mosques side by side as they had been for centuries, without conflict. Indeed if it were not for the Nazis there would have been no damage to the ancient synagogues of Sarajevo. In fact it is people who demanded self-determination for different races in an ethnically mixed community who are entirely to blame for hundreds of thousands of deaths. Self-determination is all very well, but I think human life is more valuable. Sometimes it is better to live in the country history allotted you rather than to look back at ancient wars and fight them over and over again. Our Empire has withered on the vine and I see no point in trying to reunite with our former colonies in the USA, nor in trying to regain the whole Kingdom of Ireland nor the Dominion of India. They speak our language, what more do we need? __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

07-08-2008, 10:09 AM	#7 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,988	Kosovo has declared independence. Some countries recognise that independence, some do not. It is not for us to interfere in those decisions. The Slovaks have their reasons for not recognising Kosovo. They are an independent nation and may make that decision if they so wish. The idea that Serbs near the borders of Kosovo and 'Serbia' should abandon their family homes of centuries to comply with someone else's idea of self determination is pure evil. Ethnic cleansing is something that has to be stopped not encouraged by international organisations. Kosovo is not 'viable'. It has few mineral resources, no banking system and an inadequate service sector. There are derelict Tito era factories. It has mass unemployment and a disproportionate number of the male population, especially graduates, work overseas (I think I read 40%). Every metalled road in Kosovo was built with EU funds (our taxes) and should you go there you will see EU flags everywhere. The EU runs the country and effectively subsidises the existence of virtually everyone. When I said the self-determination was affected by outside influences I included Serbs in that. Republika Srpska was created by the Serbs to protect their minority. The Bosniacs (Muslims of Serb/Turkish descent) were supported by al Qaeda and many mosques have been ruined by having their beautiful artwork painted over with whitewash by the Wahabis both in Bosnia and Kosovo (go there if you don't believe me). The Croats were supported by their kin from Croatia. Having wandered in the ruins of Mostar and Glogovacs where I worked and having been to Sarajevo and Pristina I can heartily recommend those who support self-determination in ethnically mixed communities to look at the graveyards and the burnt out streets and ask if it is worth it. The locals put pictures on the graves. Looking at the faces of hundreds of young men in Mostar killed within a few months of each other is salutary. One of my interpreters admitted that Serbs had done bad things to her , another killed his first Croat at the age of 14 whilst sniping from the burnt out shell of his home. 60% of the population of Bosnia Herzegovina, including expats, is female. The imbalance was caused by self-determination. Kosovo was created out of ethnic cleansing and atrocities on both sides. It is funded by the EU and guess what currency is readily acceptable in all shops. Independence? Self-determination? __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

08-08-2008, 10:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,988	Kosovo is not viable. It will seek to become part of Albania. That is the plan. I note that you complain about your taxes being spent in Slovakia, but not in Kosovo which is administered by the EU. Much more EU money is spent per capita on tiny little Kosovo than is spent on Slovakia. I'd need to check, but I think you'll find, per capita, that more EU money is spent in Kosovo than almost any EU country. Kosovo is not in the EU and does not border an EU member state. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

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