g hall

and what if "the others" are friends and family members murdered in revenge or even worse innocent bystanders

__________________
"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."
TANSTAAFL TANJ

Clippo

G hall wrote:-
Well try this :- You don’t understand the English language very well do you ?

From Dictionary and Thesaurus - Merriam-Webster Online - ( leaving out things like pronunciation etc)

revenge
1 : to avenge (as oneself) usually by retaliating in kind or degree 2 : to inflict injury in return for <revenge an insult>

triumphalism
: an attitude or feeling of victory or superiority: as a: the attitude that one religious creed is superior to all others b: smug or boastful pride in the success or dominance of one's nation or ideology over others

You are incorrectly or even maliciously equating revenge with triumphalism and from the definitions above you are obviously wrong. You have accused me & others of being triumphalist over the DP.

I said before & I’ll say it again, I certainly am not triumphalist over the execution of a convicted murderer.

However, I do believe in retaliation in kind or degree and in the case of pre-meditated murder, since the murdered person can hardly avenge themselves, I believe the State therefore has the authority to retaliate in kind.

Coincidentally, this evening I believe the film Albert Pierrepoint is being shown on TV. I don’t think anybody would call him triumphalist.

g hall

Well enough thank you


other dictionaries exist

Cambridge

revenge
noun [u]
harm done to someone as a punishment for harm that they have done to someone else:
She took/got/exacted (her) revenge on him for leaving her by smashing up his car.
He is believed to have been shot by a rival gang in revenge for the shootings last week.

revenge
verb [T]
to harm someone as a punishment for harm that they have done to you:
to revenge a death/defeat/injustice
[R] The red team revenged themselves on the blue team by winning the semi-final.

your dictionary.com

revenge Definition
re·venge (ri venj′)
transitive verb -·venged′, -·veng′·ing

1. to inflict damage, injury, or punishment in return for (an injury, insult, etc.); retaliate for
2. to take vengeance in behalf of (a person, oneself, etc.); avenge

Etymology: ME revengen < OFr revenger < re-, again + vengier, to take vengeance < L vindicare: see vindicate

intransitive verb
Obsolete to take vengeance

noun

1. the act of revenging; vengeance
2. what is done in revenging
3. desire to take vengeance; vindictive spirit
4. a chance to retaliate or get satisfaction, as by a return match after a defeat

revenge Related Forms
re·veng′er noun re·veng′·ingly adverb
revenge Idioms
be revenged
to get revenge


revenge Synonyms
revenge

n.

1. The act of returning an injury
   vengeance, requital, reprisal, getting even, measure for measure, an eye for an eye, blow for blow, tit for tat, repayment, return of evil for evil, counterattack, sortie, counterinsurgency, retaliation, retribution, avenging, paying back, settling accounts; see also attack 1.
   Antonyms pardon*, forgiveness, excusing.
2. The desire to obtain revenge
   vindictiveness, rancor, implacability, ruthlessness, malevolence, vengefulness, spitefulness, ill-will, animus, vendetta; see also hate, malice.

revenge Synonyms
revenge

v.
avenge, retaliate, vindicate, requite, get even with, take revenge, have one's revenge, breathe vengeance, wreak one's vengeance, exact retribution, pay back, pay off, make reprisal, punish, repay, repay in kind, return like for like, return blow for blow, give tit for tat, reciprocate, settle accounts, square accounts, settle up, pay back in one's own coin, take an eye for an eye, turn the tables on, get back at, fight back, be out for blood, give an exchange, give and take, give someone their just deserts, get satisfaction, even the score, get*, fix*, give someone their comeuppance*, pay off old scores*, settle a score*, return the compliment*, pay back in spades*, fix one's wagon*, give a taste of one's own medicine*, give as good as one gets*.
Antonyms forgive*, condone, pardon.

revenge implies the infliction of punishment as an act of retaliation, usually for an injury against oneself, and connotes personal malice, bitter resentment, or vindictive spirit as the moving force;

lets try Justice instead as it seems to be forgotten

your dictionary.com again

justice Definition
jus·tice (jus′tis)
noun

1. the quality of being righteous; rectitude
2. impartiality; fairness
3. the quality of being right or correct
4. sound reason; rightfulness; validity
5. reward or penalty as deserved; just deserts
6. 1. the use of authority and power to uphold what is right, just, or lawful
   2. the personification of this, usually a blindfolded goddess holding scales and a sword
7. the administration of law; procedure of a law court
8. 1. judge ()
   2. justice of the peace

Etymology: OFr < L justitia < justus: see just


justice Idioms
bring to justice
to cause (a wrongdoer) to be tried in court and duly punished


do justice to

1. to treat fitly or fairly
2. to treat with due appreciation; enjoy properly

do oneself justice

1. to do something in a manner worthy of one's ability
2. to be fair to oneself

justice Synonyms
justice

n.

1. Fairness
   right, truth, equity; see fairness.
2. Lawfulness
   legality, equity, rightfulness, prescriptive right, statutory right, established right, legitimacy, validity, sanction, legalization, constitutionality, authority, code, charter, creed, credo, decree, legitimization, rule, regularity, legal process, authorization;

Nothing there about revenge is there


But you would, and I quote you
"I would gladly execute this Humvee driver if found guilty"

gladly murder

The state should not have the authority to take the life of one of it's own citizens that way leads to a very slippery slope

I have no idea about Albert Pierrepoint and his views and frankly don't really care.

__________________
"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."
TANSTAAFL TANJ

kernow

So if one of your loved ones was murdered, you'd be willing to accept that the murderer got 12 years which will end up as six, which appears to be the normal sentence for modern "Human Rights " Judges? Personally in those cases, I'd hang the judge as well!

Northumbrian

It's the price we pay for being 'civilised'.

g hall

kernow as I have said before, life should be life, in a cell 8 foot square and I would gladly campaign for such.
The problem today, which we all acknowledge, is that there are to many lenient sentences which do not fit the crime and which are not justice.

BTW I have personally known 3 murderers and I know what motivated them and 2 of them life is life and they should not come out, the third committed a crime of passion and has rebuilt his life since his release ( I do not condone what he did but understand why he did it)

__________________
"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."
TANSTAAFL TANJ

Clippo

G hall wrote:-
Agreed – I had a slow response from Cambridge and went to the next from my google search. However, I did go back & initially include definitions from Cambridge and several others.
I decided not include definitions from them because it made my post unwieldy and furthermore they all implied the same :-
From your post re Revenge:-
etc etc etc
..................................

You further wrote:-
That would be nice – as long as the VICTIM also gets justice

Again from your Justice:-
& from Dictionary & Thesaurus - YourDictionary :
punish
1. to cause to undergo pain, loss, or suffering for a crime or wrongdoing
2. to impose a penalty on a wrongdoer for (an offense)
3. + others

I could go on. My point is simply that the ‘Law’ is a collection of rules to be followed by citizens of a society and that if they don’t, they must be punished.

Justice – which you trumpet so loudly – means to an accused that they are treated fairly and without bias. However, a victim should also be treated fairly and in the eyes of the majority, this means the criminal should be punished in proportion to the crime.
..................

You still don’t understand the definition of triumphalism – I note that you haven’t trawled thro’ other dictionaries on this word – perhaps because you have been found wanting.

Paraphrasing my comment, you wrote:-
Gladly does NOT = triumphalism

I would be ‘glad’ to perform a legal execution (& therefore not murder) if circumstances conspired that I was required to do it. I would take little pleasure out of it and certainly wouldn't have a joyful celebration afterwards.
.......................................

You also say, revealingly ::
You seem to have moved in very undesirable circles – and although not suggesting you are a criminal, I suspect you are a Humanist

Although it was rjt I asked earlier, and who has not replied, I ask you these questions :-
You don’t seem to have answered the conundrum to you that in a democratic society, laws should reflect the wishes of the majority.

kernow

I totally agree, crimes of passion are a completely different thing! You come home early from work, find your wife in bed with your so called best friend and there happens to be a baseball bat handy!