C_steam

In the case of the sutcliffes, wests et al the answer is yes. Their actions have removed them from our society and they will never be able to return to it. Their crimes are so terrible that they have given up any rights and they deserve to die. Regretfully, in the case of sutcliffe he is still alive and regularly features in TV documentaries - can you imagine what this constant reminder is like to the family of one of his victims?

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The Bear

My restrained comment related to where you had written “I still think he is as guilty as hell”, and to a much greater extent where “London Orbital” had written “If this weirdo had been hung 8 years ago it would have been no great loss, only slightly regrettable” which I thought was unfortunate to say the least in light of the support for a violent thug “London Orbital” has shown in another thread.

Barry George is what he apparently is. An individual with a few problems, and in need of a bit more support than most yet he has hurt no one.

He is also an example of “E pluribus unum” though in his case the “pluribus” are not the violent thug types, but the people with needs that society should but does not provide. The people for whom care in the community in fact means couldn’t care less in the community.

What happened to him was quite literally a case of insult on top of injury.

The institutions that would once have provided the care such people need were closed and an experiment attempted, a experiment that has failed and should be stopped ad the institutions for such people reinstated.

Two people were attacked when Jill Dando was shot. Her, and shortly afterwards him and as a casualty of the same bullet.

We can’t do anything to help Jill, but we could do a great deal for the Barry Georges of this world, and in my opinion we should.

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Aardvark

Bear, The Peto Trust will confirm that many subject to care in the community should be protected and, sadly, institutionalised. We are all hostages to fortune as anyone can be killed by people who should not be in our midst. It is expensive and does seem unfair that people should be locked up when they are 'only' potentially dangerous for short periods or if they forget their medication, but the alternate is innocent people being killed on a whim, impulse or by order of the voices.

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"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

david H

I agree with kernow on this. Rjt, I am afraid that I do not have a very high opinion of humn nature so would ask you how do we improve siociety? It seems to me that we have declined morally not improved since these ideals came to the fore with liberalism or progressivism. Furthermore, it seems more humane to hang someone than keep them in prison for 30 years or so.

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The Bear

Too true.

But institutionalised doesn’t mean being locked up in all cases by any means. People who are vulnerable or a little odd or who need support from others did manage to live very happily in what for them really were asylums in the true meaning of the word, pretty well coming and going and treating the places like a form of hostel.

Now those same poor sods often end up committing minor crime, all to often deliberately, and getting put in prison simply because they find institutional life, even prisons, less hurtful than life in the streets.

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g hall

No-one DESERVES to die

I feel that the quote by Gandalf in Lord of the Rings states it so aptly


Frodo: It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had the chance.
Gandalf: Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.

Gandalf (Character)

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John Connor

...unless they vote Labour a fourth time.

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Clippo

The Bear wrote:-
I don’t think this is true. The tactic of his defence team was that he has more than a few problems and I believe that he has hurt people previously – that is to say I think (& will apologise if corrected), that he has a conviction for attempted rape and by his own admission has stalked a number of people, especially women.

I admit with hindsight that that my ‘guilty as hell’ terminology was inappropriate. However, on the limited evidence I do think he was guilty of Jill Dando’s murder.
If there was the option of a death penalty then, I do not think the evidence in his case should have warranted death – but a medical-custodial sentence.


(And as for John Connor's last post - I found this quite ..... funny )

kernow

Equally, you could say a lot of people don't deserve to live!

g hall

Not an equal comment no one asks to be born

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"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."
TANSTAAFL TANJ