Improve Democracy

Jean-Paul Gagnon · 30-07-2008, 10:15 AM

Hello everyone, this is a theory I am thinking of proposing in my PhD thesis. It is in it's most basic form, but I think in this form it is clearest and should allow for logical criticisms, refutations, etc. I am interested in your opinions considering its logical assumptions. Please note that this work is copyrighted (Copyright Jean-Paul Gagnon, 2008). If you would like to use it for any reason other than reading, please be courteous enough to cite my work. I appreciate your consideration, thank you!

The Theory of Endemic Governance Problems

- There are four basic democratic processes which every style of democracy shares:
1) Discerning Rulers
2) Communication
3) The Rule of Law
4) Equality/Justice/Pluralism

- The four basic democratic processes can be combined to argue that democracy is simply the best method known at this time for people to order their society collectively.

- These basic processes are often hindered by the state. Many "democracies" have elements of aristocracy (the executive, special interest groups), meritocracy (specialized committees, hiring policies, etc.) and are often seen as inaccessible by many citizens.

- It is the democratic state's responsibility to strengthen these processes. How?

- Seven endemic problems have been identified in the past 2,500 years of human governance. In every major historical governmental period, these seven endemic problems have and are still "problematic." It is by mitigating these problems that the four democratic processes can gain precedence in the state thus making government more accessible to the sovereignty of the people in a democratic manner.

- The seven endemic problems are:
1) Accountability
2) Representation
3) Transparency
4) Long-Term Goals
5) Constitutionalism
6) Campaigning Methods
7) Corruption

End Result: Mitigating the seven problems will strengthen the most basic democratic processes in all democratically styled governments or non-democratic governments, at any level of government, in any culture. This will hopefully result in the improvement of the human condition by streamlining government due to the maximization of its efforts in line with its citizen's desires.

Clippo · 30-07-2008, 07:08 PM

Jean-Paul,
Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately, I suspect you’re wasting your time here – I have been told that, apart from BNP (British National party) trolls and jaded UKIP supporters, the majority of the rest of the active posters are USA-style right wing Libertarian, Free- Marketeers or New World Order (NWO) conspiracy theorists (or worse a combination of the last two).
Bottom line:- none of those organisations seem to practise democracy even if they say they do.

(BTW, I’m none of these but I find your post interesting. However, I’m desperately trying to minimise my input to this forum so I’ll be short and pose a question to you :-

Which of the ‘endemic’ seven problems does, for example, Direct Democracy (particularly the Swiss version) suffer critically from ?

Ea of Dune · 30-07-2008, 07:15 PM

Clippo> I see so you tar everyone with the same brush. Slightly immature of you. There are plenty of conflicting views on this forum from a variety of different parties or schools of thought.
Yes you will find Libetarians on here but also English nationalists, Conservatives, UKIP members, EDP members and a variety of posters who are a member of no party

Quote:

none of those organisations seem to practise democracy even if they say they do.

Really? Bit of an arrogant comment there, and thoroughly incorrect.

Ea of dune

Aardvark · 30-07-2008, 10:46 PM

JPG, The question I ask is who decided that there are 4 basic democratic processes and that there are 7 endemic problems? Looking at those 7 problems I would be curious as to who identified campaigning methods, for instance, as an issue during the period between the existence of Greco-Roman democracies and the Renaissance. Much of history has been dominated by absolute rule that did not consider any of the 7 problems to be an issue.

youcanhandlethetruth · 31-07-2008, 01:52 AM

Jean-Paul,

Welcome to the forum.

Your statement:
"It is by mitigating these problems that the four democratic processes can gain precedence in the state thus making government more accessible to the sovereignty of the people in a democratic manner."

A lovely ideal but can you show me any government today which endears these principles ? I think not.
They all fall into the bracket of trying to suppress the public's wish to have "accountability", "transparency", "(lack of) corruption" and "representation". (assuming of course the people need to have someone to rule them to begin with and cannot find a better system of "democracy")

May I ask, how on earth can you say "constitutionalism" is an endemic problem ?!!

Excuse me, but it it is the constiution which provides the individual rights, checks and balances against tyranny, dictatorial and executive power and protects the rights of the people !

So how on earth do you come up with that ?

I see Australia is coming more and more under New Word Order control.

You should be aware that what your academic institution is teaching you is unlikely to be in line with the best interests of your own country and constitution.

For example you question "It is the democratic state's responsibility to strengthen these processes. How?

Good question.
By letting democracy serve the interests of the people and not the self-serving state and the corporations?

What about an entirely new political process where the majority of people(and not the state or a select group of individuals/politicians) are involved in the real decision making ?

The whole concept of "democratic state" is bordering on a contradiction in terms.

Ever heard of the term "Government is best which governs least " ?

Anyway, sorry for my rant, I'd be interested to hear your views.....

Smidgey · 31-07-2008, 02:35 AM

Why do you think democracy is the best method known at this time?

Not all methods known have been tried.

Also, would limited democracy be better than universal suffrage?

youcanhandlethetruth · 31-07-2008, 08:53 PM

What other methods are you thinking of specifically Smidgey ?

Aardvark · 31-07-2008, 09:26 PM

J-P G, Would you agree that Kropotkin and the original school of Anarchism led to a strengthening of decentralisation and federalism? What are your views on Hayek and bodybuilding?

Smidgey · 01-08-2008, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth

What other methods are you thinking of specifically Smidgey ?

There are plenty of systems that have never been tried, from Plato's Republic to Mill's limited democracy.

BonnieDundee · 01-08-2008, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aardvark

JPG, The question I ask is who decided that there are 4 basic democratic processes and that there are 7 endemic problems? Looking at those 7 problems I would be curious as to who identified campaigning methods, for instance, as an issue during the period between the existence of Greco-Roman democracies and the Renaissance. Much of history has been dominated by absolute rule that did not consider any of the 7 problems to be an issue.

Most societies despite the theoretically absolute power of rulers actually were governed mainly by the natural and voluntary associations of society and the customs and traditions that came from these; by kinship, church/religion, local community, occupational bodies/guilds, the polis/city state etc. The reach of the central gov't and the general state into such matters was usually quite small until the 18th century and particularly the French revolution. And obviously in the West the middle ages optimized this kind of social organisation.

30-07-2008, 10:15 AM	#1 (permalink)
Jean-Paul Gagnon Newbie Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 1	Improve Democracy - New Political Theory? Hello everyone, this is a theory I am thinking of proposing in my PhD thesis. It is in it's most basic form, but I think in this form it is clearest and should allow for logical criticisms, refutations, etc. I am interested in your opinions considering its logical assumptions. Please note that this work is copyrighted (Copyright Jean-Paul Gagnon, 2008). If you would like to use it for any reason other than reading, please be courteous enough to cite my work. I appreciate your consideration, thank you! The Theory of Endemic Governance Problems - There are four basic democratic processes which every style of democracy shares: 1) Discerning Rulers 2) Communication 3) The Rule of Law 4) Equality/Justice/Pluralism - The four basic democratic processes can be combined to argue that democracy is simply the best method known at this time for people to order their society collectively. - These basic processes are often hindered by the state. Many "democracies" have elements of aristocracy (the executive, special interest groups), meritocracy (specialized committees, hiring policies, etc.) and are often seen as inaccessible by many citizens. - It is the democratic state's responsibility to strengthen these processes. How? - Seven endemic problems have been identified in the past 2,500 years of human governance. In every major historical governmental period, these seven endemic problems have and are still "problematic." It is by mitigating these problems that the four democratic processes can gain precedence in the state thus making government more accessible to the sovereignty of the people in a democratic manner. - The seven endemic problems are: 1) Accountability 2) Representation 3) Transparency 4) Long-Term Goals 5) Constitutionalism 6) Campaigning Methods 7) Corruption End Result: Mitigating the seven problems will strengthen the most basic democratic processes in all democratically styled governments or non-democratic governments, at any level of government, in any culture. This will hopefully result in the improvement of the human condition by streamlining government due to the maximization of its efforts in line with its citizen's desires.

30-07-2008, 10:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,988	JPG, The question I ask is who decided that there are 4 basic democratic processes and that there are 7 endemic problems? Looking at those 7 problems I would be curious as to who identified campaigning methods, for instance, as an issue during the period between the existence of Greco-Roman democracies and the Renaissance. Much of history has been dominated by absolute rule that did not consider any of the 7 problems to be an issue. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

31-07-2008, 01:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
youcanhandlethetruth Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,582	Jean-Paul, Welcome to the forum. Your statement: "It is by mitigating these problems that the four democratic processes can gain precedence in the state thus making government more accessible to the sovereignty of the people in a democratic manner." A lovely ideal but can you show me any government today which endears these principles ? I think not. They all fall into the bracket of trying to suppress the public's wish to have "accountability", "transparency", "(lack of) corruption" and "representation". (assuming of course the people need to have someone to rule them to begin with and cannot find a better system of "democracy") May I ask, how on earth can you say "constitutionalism" is an endemic problem ?!! Excuse me, but it it is the constiution which provides the individual rights, checks and balances against tyranny, dictatorial and executive power and protects the rights of the people ! So how on earth do you come up with that ? I see Australia is coming more and more under New Word Order control. You should be aware that what your academic institution is teaching you is unlikely to be in line with the best interests of your own country and constitution. For example you question "It is the democratic state's responsibility to strengthen these processes. How? Good question. By letting democracy serve the interests of the people and not the self-serving state and the corporations? What about an entirely new political process where the majority of people(and not the state or a select group of individuals/politicians) are involved in the real decision making ? The whole concept of "democratic state" is bordering on a contradiction in terms. Ever heard of the term "Government is best which governs least " ? Anyway, sorry for my rant, I'd be interested to hear your views..... __________________ Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed. cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP,agni,Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

31-07-2008, 02:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
Smidgey Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,225 Party: Libertarian Party	Why do you think democracy is the best method known at this time? Not all methods known have been tried. Also, would limited democracy be better than universal suffrage? __________________ How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might! -Georg Friedrich Händel

31-07-2008, 08:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
youcanhandlethetruth Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,582	What other methods are you thinking of specifically Smidgey ? __________________ Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed. cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP,agni,Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

30-07-2008, 07:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
Clippo Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cheshire Posts: 2,273	Jean-Paul, Welcome to the forum. Unfortunately, I suspect you’re wasting your time here – I have been told that, apart from BNP (British National party) trolls and jaded UKIP supporters, the majority of the rest of the active posters are USA-style right wing Libertarian, Free- Marketeers or New World Order (NWO) conspiracy theorists (or worse a combination of the last two). Bottom line:- none of those organisations seem to practise democracy even if they say they do. (BTW, I’m none of these but I find your post interesting. However, I’m desperately trying to minimise my input to this forum so I’ll be short and pose a question to you :- Which of the ‘endemic’ seven problems does, for example, Direct Democracy (particularly the Swiss version) suffer critically from ?

31-07-2008, 09:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,988	J-P G, Would you agree that Kropotkin and the original school of Anarchism led to a strengthening of decentralisation and federalism? What are your views on Hayek and bodybuilding? __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

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