Besoeker

I totally agree.

eublues

Anyone thinking of having children should think about their means and resources for raising children first. Unfortunately, for the underclass the state has incentivised having children.

Aardvark

The problem for the world's poorer nations is about to be confronted head on. The big boys have engineered a food and food distribution crisis that will see millions go hungry this year.

The issues in this country are very different. Our country has passed laws to protect the poorest from the worst effects of laissez faire capitalism. Some will exploit these laws to gain benefits, but most do not set out with that as the game plan.

I know loads of teen mums and the babies tend to be the result of the biological urge to breed coupled with a dose of forgetfulness, a fair measure of irresponsibility and a lot of vodka (that's how I got to be a grandfather!). My daughter is poor, as indeed am I at present as I haven't secured a well paid contract for some months. My daughter is in receipt of everything that the system gives her, as well as maintenance from the dad, and although she is enjoying motherhood she is planning her return to work as soon as circumstances permit. Many of her friends are the same and some are already back at work with the aid of funded childcare places. I don't think I know any teen mum who is planning of making a career of fecundity, but we do have a couple of large, state funded traveller families locally. The children have no say in the matter and should be looked after. The girls, brought up in a materialistic society, are missing the good things they enjoyed when they were working and I reckon they'll all be back at work in the fullness of time.

__________________
When in Woking do as the Wokes do.

"I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

g hall

The nature of the question takes us I think to what kind of state/community/society do we want to live in ?
Do we want the fit and strong to help the weak and sick or is it nature red in tooth and claw
Then we must pursue Rights and Responsibilities

I see a very large can of worms

__________________
"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."
TANSTAAFL TANJ

B.A.Ware

Speaking from my own experience i used to live close to a registered disabled guy something wrong with his leg( couldn't work but managed to fit lament flooring in his house) when i meet him he had two children and was bringing them up on benefits over the next three years he had three more children, so he had a total of five children all been brought up on benefits which ****** me off because in that same period i had two children even though i would have liked more but i took into account how much the cost of raising and educating them would be and my present job dictated i could offer two children a reasonable lifestyle and education.

I do not think there should be no benefits for having your first child but i don't see it is the states job to endlessly foot the bill for irresponsible parents, i would probably not have benefits for a second child if it could be shown that the parents had acted irresponsibly ie not just fallen on hard times.

__________________
We’re not just about Europe.

Seasider

I think that the benefit should be a flat rate and irrespective of whether you have one, four or ten children the amount stays the same.
Anyone who is in employment doesn't roll into work and say 'oh my wife had a baby over the weekend so that'll be another £50 in my pay packet. won't it?'

So if a worker has to stretch his income to fit his family, then someone on benefits should be expected to do the same.

youcanhandlethetruth

So you would like to wipe out the 3rd world by stopping people having children.

That's nice.

And if for example America or Britain suffered economic collapse and became a 3rd world nation too(certainly possible), then I presume you'd like to see the population to be wiped out here in the west too ?

Sounds like you want to turn your version of morality, into a rights issues, by taking rights away from people.

Ironically these phoney questions of morality is what is driving the loss of rights and liberty we see in Britain today.

Good job.

__________________
Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed.

cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP,agni,Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist

Anthony Butcher

Huh? I said that, in my opinion, they shouldn't, not that I was going to stop them. It should be their choice and moral responsibility.

That's not going to 'wipe' out populations at all, and using dramatic terminology doesn't improve the level of the debate. If lots more people acted responsibly then there might be a significant reduction in birth rates in some countries, yes, and that would probably be a very good thing for them.
Again, I have no idea where this argument is coming from. We are talking about personal morality and choice, not laws.

__________________
If you care about what's in your food and where it comes from, then get it labelled!
Label My Food - http://www.labelmyfood.org.uk

Olympic Flame

A raw idea whose spirit is essentially good.

UN study showed Britain was the worst place in the developed world to be a child, partly because of early sexual intercourse rates and high teenage pregnancies.

For 16 out of 17 of the wealthiest countries with the data, between 15 per cent and 28 per cent of young people had had sex by the age of 15. For the UK, the figure was 40 per cent.

In my opinion the most important problem is the failure to put the age of consent into practice. Offenders should be charged and put behind the bars if necessary. Juveniles should be given appropriate punishment stated by the law. Itimate relationship among underaged children should be discouraged in public schools. Proper Use of contraceptive should be taught as well so in the worst case there wont be so many babies with underaged moms.

youcanhandlethetruth

Ok fair enough - whne you said "they shouldn't", I interpreted that the wrong way - I thought you meant stop them.

The question "Is it ok for people living in poverty to have children" is probably part of the reason.

I agree that irresponsible parents(I don't include poverty in that) should have more morality when deciding(if they even do) to have children.

Apologies for misunderstanding what you meant.

__________________
Before tyranny and television, "conspiracy theorists" never existed.

cointelpro/halfwits(in order of Porkpies) Clippo,Wowbanger TIP,agni,Akria,Besoeker,Bear,Eurosceptic Antlantacist