Lowestoft Airshow

g hall · 24-07-2008, 08:48 PM

First day of the Lowestoft Airshow today and this was just simply awesome

YouTube - Vulcan XH558 first post-restoration...

Should be back tomorrow for anybody close enough

kernow · 24-07-2008, 11:20 PM

I think I'm right in saying, (but I don't mind being corrected) when I was a child and the Vulcan or Valiant (or was it Victor?) first appeared, the 'Eagle' comic enclosed plans for balsa wood models of these planes. Can anyone confirm this please?

Clippo · 25-07-2008, 09:39 AM

I’m desperately trying to wean myself off the forum but I couldn’t resist commenting on this story :-

Unfortunately, I didn’t know in advance about the Lowestoft air show but it would probably have been too far for me to go anyway.

However, last Sunday, I went with my eldest son to the Large Model Association’s (LMA) annual meeting at RAF Cosford , Shropshire. There was an excellent display of many different aircraft models including a superb Vulcan. It was hoped that the real Vulcan would put in an attendance since the recent chairman of the LMA (who died recently unfortunately) was an original Vulcan pilot and could pull strings. Alas, we had to be satisfied with a real Spitfire & Dakota.

Nevertheless, RAF Cosford is also an RAF museum and in their new building they have a Vulcan amongst many other stars of British aviation and other country's aircraft.

Absolutely gob-smacking !!!!

I lived near Filton in Bristol in the late 50’s & early sixties and to test the engines for the developing Concorde, the designers slung an Olympus engine underneath a Vulcan and flew it around South Glos. regularly.

When this ‘beast’ flew over your house at about 1000ft, you were rooted to the spot in fear & awe.

Aardvark · 25-07-2008, 10:22 AM

Does anybody know who the crew were? When I flew Victors the display Vulcan crew was captained by Paul Millikin who was AARI (air-to-air refuelling instructor) on the Victor IIRC. The display crew were ultimately all drawn from Victor crews as the cockpit systems of all 3 V-force aircraft were very similar. With the demise of the Victor the V-force ended and I don't know who is crewing the Vulcan these days.

Wowbanger TIP · 25-07-2008, 10:43 AM

Bit of a tame display. I seem to recall seeing one of these things performing a 360 degree roll in my youth as well as taking off almost vertically.

Still a magnificent machine, almost seems a shame that they never did get a chance to roar down the Volga Valley and drop the bomb on Yaroslavl.

Aardvark · 25-07-2008, 03:53 PM

..but they did bomb Port Stanley!

I suspect the display limitiations would be to do with the fact that the certificate of airworthiness will be a civvy one and will be subject to many limitations. The military displays were based on different parameters. There might also be few fatigue increments left so that whilst a barrel roll might be feasible it would use up several months worth of aircraft fatigue.

The limitation on the climb rate would be to do with the MFS (a very basic internal aids flying system), which, IIRC, is limited to 60 degrees nose up. Over that the pilot has to look outside for visual clues and, if he is not flying the aircraft regularly, it might be something he is reticent about. I've been 85 degrees nose up in a Victor K2, but the pilot was working hard to not overcock it as at 91 degrees we would have lost the lift from the tail and died horribly. I seem to recall we were at 5000' by the end of the runway on ASI; I had access to the rearview periscope and looked at the piano keys as we passed 5000'. The V-force aircraft, especially the Victor with its 4 Conways, had a phenomenal power to weight ratio. Happy days.

C_steam · 25-07-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clippo

INevertheless, RAF Cosford is also an RAF museum and in their new building they have a Vulcan amongst many other stars of British aviation and other country's aircraft.

The real story behind that is the 'fun' they had trying to get the vulcan in on the cosford strip! First they had to ensure no trains were running because they had to be so low over the railway on the approach to hit the piano keys. Then the amount of fuel they didn't have to keep the weight down and thus improve the braking efficiency..... etc etc,

cookie65 · 25-07-2008, 07:52 PM

I seem to recall a panic a few years ago about the currency of training for Vulcan crews. As they had not flown for so long there were doubts they would be allowed to fly XH 558. This was exacerbated by the demise of Concord(e) which was the only other Olympus powered, four engined delta. I doubt the RAF had maintained any Vulcan simulators. I wonder how they got round these problems?
I am so glad they brought her back to life and hope the same common sense approach will apply to other high performance RAF aircraft.(Buccaneer, Lightning etc) I doubt we will ever see another Victor fly as the running costs would be too high for public subscription for what is (unfairly) not as well known as Vulcan/Concord.

Aardvark · 27-07-2008, 01:07 PM

The Vulcan sim was at Finningley, but IIRC was scrapped at the demise of the main fleet. Because the avionic suite in the Victor - MFS etc - was the same it was possible for Victor crews to fly the display Vulcan. The demise of the Victor fleet meant that currency could not be maintained. I presume it is flown under the same rules as apply to test pilots who by definition cannot have flown an aircraftr until its first flight.

Aardvark · 27-07-2008, 01:20 PM

More at:

Vulcan to the Sky Trust - Avro Vulcan Bomber XH558 - Vulcan Operating Company
PPRuNe Forums

25-07-2008, 10:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,988	Does anybody know who the crew were? When I flew Victors the display Vulcan crew was captained by Paul Millikin who was AARI (air-to-air refuelling instructor) on the Victor IIRC. The display crew were ultimately all drawn from Victor crews as the cockpit systems of all 3 V-force aircraft were very similar. With the demise of the Victor the V-force ended and I don't know who is crewing the Vulcan these days. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

25-07-2008, 03:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,988	..but they did bomb Port Stanley! I suspect the display limitiations would be to do with the fact that the certificate of airworthiness will be a civvy one and will be subject to many limitations. The military displays were based on different parameters. There might also be few fatigue increments left so that whilst a barrel roll might be feasible it would use up several months worth of aircraft fatigue. The limitation on the climb rate would be to do with the MFS (a very basic internal aids flying system), which, IIRC, is limited to 60 degrees nose up. Over that the pilot has to look outside for visual clues and, if he is not flying the aircraft regularly, it might be something he is reticent about. I've been 85 degrees nose up in a Victor K2, but the pilot was working hard to not overcock it as at 91 degrees we would have lost the lift from the tail and died horribly. I seem to recall we were at 5000' by the end of the runway on ASI; I had access to the rearview periscope and looked at the piano keys as we passed 5000'. The V-force aircraft, especially the Victor with its 4 Conways, had a phenomenal power to weight ratio. Happy days. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

27-07-2008, 01:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,988	The Vulcan sim was at Finningley, but IIRC was scrapped at the demise of the main fleet. Because the avionic suite in the Victor - MFS etc - was the same it was possible for Victor crews to fly the display Vulcan. The demise of the Victor fleet meant that currency could not be maintained. I presume it is flown under the same rules as apply to test pilots who by definition cannot have flown an aircraftr until its first flight. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

27-07-2008, 01:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,988	More at: Vulcan to the Sky Trust - Avro Vulcan Bomber XH558 - Vulcan Operating Company PPRuNe Forums __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

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24-07-2008, 11:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
kernow Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 5,184	I think I'm right in saying, (but I don't mind being corrected) when I was a child and the Vulcan or Valiant (or was it Victor?) first appeared, the 'Eagle' comic enclosed plans for balsa wood models of these planes. Can anyone confirm this please?

25-07-2008, 09:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
Clippo Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Cheshire Posts: 2,273	I’m desperately trying to wean myself off the forum but I couldn’t resist commenting on this story :- Unfortunately, I didn’t know in advance about the Lowestoft air show but it would probably have been too far for me to go anyway. However, last Sunday, I went with my eldest son to the Large Model Association’s (LMA) annual meeting at RAF Cosford , Shropshire. There was an excellent display of many different aircraft models including a superb Vulcan. It was hoped that the real Vulcan would put in an attendance since the recent chairman of the LMA (who died recently unfortunately) was an original Vulcan pilot and could pull strings. Alas, we had to be satisfied with a real Spitfire & Dakota. Nevertheless, RAF Cosford is also an RAF museum and in their new building they have a Vulcan amongst many other stars of British aviation and other country's aircraft. Absolutely gob-smacking !!!! I lived near Filton in Bristol in the late 50’s & early sixties and to test the engines for the developing Concorde, the designers slung an Olympus engine underneath a Vulcan and flew it around South Glos. regularly. When this ‘beast’ flew over your house at about 1000ft, you were rooted to the spot in fear & awe.

25-07-2008, 10:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
Wowbanger TIP Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,709	Bit of a tame display. I seem to recall seeing one of these things performing a 360 degree roll in my youth as well as taking off almost vertically. Still a magnificent machine, almost seems a shame that they never did get a chance to roar down the Volga Valley and drop the bomb on Yaroslavl.

25-07-2008, 07:52 PM	#8 (permalink)
cookie65 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: hyde cheshire Posts: 648	I seem to recall a panic a few years ago about the currency of training for Vulcan crews. As they had not flown for so long there were doubts they would be allowed to fly XH 558. This was exacerbated by the demise of Concord(e) which was the only other Olympus powered, four engined delta. I doubt the RAF had maintained any Vulcan simulators. I wonder how they got round these problems? I am so glad they brought her back to life and hope the same common sense approach will apply to other high performance RAF aircraft.(Buccaneer, Lightning etc) I doubt we will ever see another Victor fly as the running costs would be too high for public subscription for what is (unfairly) not as well known as Vulcan/Concord.