Scandal Say:There is no God

Smidgey · 05-07-2008, 12:49 PM

That anecdote is old, boring and mostly a straw man. Anyone who tries to disprove God through sight is a moron.

EUSSR, you attack a form of atheism held only by a very small mintory (and I believe it is an untenable position).

However, agnostic atheism - of which the vast majority of atheists are a part - is not a faith.

NoMoreEUSSR · 05-07-2008, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

However, agnostic atheism - of which the vast majority of atheists are a part - is not a faith.

This discussion recently took place on another forum in which I participate. It boils down to definitions of the terms "agnostic" and "atheist" really. What you have described above I have always tended to lump into the "agnostic" category, in contrast with "fundamental" atheism - the concrete belief in the non-existence of God - which is a faith.

Smidgey · 05-07-2008, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoMoreEUSSR

This discussion recently took place on another forum in which I participate. It boils down to definitions of the terms "agnostic" and "atheist" really. What you have described above I have always tended to lump into the "agnostic" category, in contrast with "fundamental" atheism - the concrete belief in the non-existence of God - which is a faith.

Then you would be wrong.

An atheist is someone who does not believe in God.

What you call 'fundamental atheism' would be called gnostic atheism in philosophy.

The two terms are completely distinct. The fact is, an atheist is someone who does not believe in God. It pertains to believe. Gnosticism and agnosticism concern knowledge.

BonnieDundee · 05-07-2008, 01:24 PM

Quote:

An atheist is someone who does not believe in God.

In some ways you can say he is correct if the word belief is used. Belief, at least to me, implies faith.

Most athiests to me seem to be strong agnostics as compared to more weak agnostic such as myself.

g hall · 05-07-2008, 05:49 PM

first question Define God

Smidgey · 06-07-2008, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonnieDundee

In some ways you can say he is correct if the word belief is used. Belief, at least to me, implies faith.

Most athiests to me seem to be strong agnostics as compared to more weak agnostic such as myself.

Not at all. Faith is a type of belief, but not all belief is faith - far from it. Unless you are being facetious and would claim that my belief that I will fall back to earth when I jump is a faith position because I cannot know with absolute certainty that the laws of gravity will remain true. Obviously I cannot, but such cases are so absurd and would water down the definitions of belief and faith to make them almost meaningless.

I don't think agnosticism is a tenable position in any way (except for those agnostics who claim that any question concerning God is unanswerable and irrelevant).

If someone claims to be any other kind of plain agnostic, then they are - by default - also an atheist. There are two positions: Either you support Manchester United or you do not (theist and atheists). Those who have never heard of the team Manchester United clearly do not support them (the agnostics). Agnostics are also atheists (unless they define themselves as above).

Smidgey · 06-07-2008, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g hall

first question Define God

None of the Christians on this forum like to answer that one... For obvious reasons!

The Bear · 06-07-2008, 08:42 AM

A definition of god require bringing in the infinite, and once that is done the need for a god goes out the metaphorical window.

Mikeuk · 06-07-2008, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bear

There is no god.

End of story.

The fool hath said...

For_England · 06-07-2008, 09:28 AM

yeah, err, optimistic, nice story, but Islam can't be conclusive of other religions. You see, it contradicts the Bible, but at the same time it appeals to the Bible for its own authority, and even urges that its teaching be compared with the Bible to see if it is true. It fails the test.

05-07-2008, 12:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
Smidgey Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 2,225 Party: Libertarian Party	That anecdote is old, boring and mostly a straw man. Anyone who tries to disprove God through sight is a moron. EUSSR, you attack a form of atheism held only by a very small mintory (and I believe it is an untenable position). However, agnostic atheism - of which the vast majority of atheists are a part - is not a faith. __________________ How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might! -Georg Friedrich Händel

05-07-2008, 05:49 PM	#15 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: erewhon Posts: 5,638	first question Define God __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful." TANSTAAFL TANJ

06-07-2008, 08:42 AM	#18 (permalink)
The Bear Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: East Anglia Posts: 2,178	A definition of god require bringing in the infinite, and once that is done the need for a god goes out the metaphorical window. __________________ I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

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06-07-2008, 09:28 AM	#20 (permalink)
For_England Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,873	yeah, err, optimistic, nice story, but Islam can't be conclusive of other religions. You see, it contradicts the Bible, but at the same time it appeals to the Bible for its own authority, and even urges that its teaching be compared with the Bible to see if it is true. It fails the test.