News: Detentioned for Not Praying to Allah!

BonnieDundee · 05-07-2008, 11:12 AM

In fact it would seem halal could be more humane and painless.

The scientific facts

A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout.

The Halal method

With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages.

The Western method

Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move

The Bear · 05-07-2008, 11:14 AM

Bit of a shame we’ve gone down this rat hole when the real issue is the disgusting case of kids being punished for not “praying to Allah” in a British school.

In my opinion not only should schools be absolutely secular and I mean absolutely and in every respect, and the teaching of any religion to a child under the age of around fourteen considered child abuse of the worst kind short of having engaged in an act of sex.

That apart, for some “fils de puta” to have DARED to demand of a non Muslim child to pray to Allah, much less punish them when they rightly did not, should result in the instant dismissal of the individual and his banning from being involved with any kids ever again.

NickIrons · 05-07-2008, 11:31 AM

I am merely stating that to slit the throat of any mammal
will cause pain to some extent, to claim that it would be
painless is nonsense, and nothing else. I in no way condoned
or refuted Halal/Kosher/Western methods of slaughter, cutting
the throat of any mammal will cause pain.
And if you wish to say "Son of a b itch" in French, it
ends in an "e" not "a"

kernow · 05-07-2008, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bear

Bit of a shame we’ve gone down this rat hole when the real issue is the disgusting case of kids being punished for not “praying to Allah” in a British school.

In my opinion not only should schools be absolutely secular and I mean absolutely and in every respect, and the teaching of any religion to a child under the age of around fourteen considered child abuse of the worst kind short of having engaged in an act of sex.

That apart, for some “fils de puta” to have DARED to demand of a non Muslim child to pray to Allah, much less punish them when they rightly did not, should result in the instant dismissal of the individual and his banning from being involved with any kids ever again.

I agree with you on this 100%!

BonnieDundee · 05-07-2008, 01:28 PM

Quote:

I am merely stating that to slit the throat of any mammal
will cause pain to some extent, to claim that it would be
painless is nonsense, and nothing else.

Except of course the empirical evidence is against you and you have not deemed to comment on this. In fact it seems halal is more humane than stunning based on empirical evidence.

BonnieDundee · 05-07-2008, 01:30 PM

Quote:

I agree with you on this 100%!

And yet, when faced with empirical evidence, you have nothing to say about your loud pronunciations about halal.

kernow · 05-07-2008, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonnieDundee

Except of course the empirical evidence is against you and you have not deemed to comment on this. In fact it seems halal is more humane than stunning based on empirical evidence.

I can't be bothered to go over the same ground I have covered on this forum many times in the past. I suggest you look at my previous lengthy posts on the subject!

g hall · 05-07-2008, 05:48 PM

Animals for slaughter should be killed as humanly as possible for the simple reason of better tasting meat if nothing else but the mark of a civilised society is how humane it is not only to animals but the weak and sick as well

Halal and Kosher were humane when they were formulated but time moves on and advances are made and religions should move on as well, funny how the advances they adopt generally involve an ability to kill more unbelievers more quickly and efficiently

btw one of my junior schools was opposite an abattoir

kernow · 05-07-2008, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g hall

Halal and Kosher were humane when they were formulated but time moves on and advances are made and religions should move on as well, funny how the advances they adopt generally involve an ability to kill more unbelievers more quickly and efficiently

You're quite right, non believers like myself know that! Unfortunately for animals it hasn't dawned on the "Religious lot" yet! They're still "harking back" to that Abraham chap who nearly cut his own Sons throat as a sacrificed to God, but unfortunately God intervened, and Abraham spotted a poor bloody Ram hung up by it's horns in a thorn bush, so Abraham cut this poor Rams throat and sacrificed him instead and they've been doing it ever since! At least the Catholics and Protestants have grown up and realise that Religious slaughter has no place in a modern society.

BonnieDundee · 06-07-2008, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kernow

I can't be bothered to go over the same ground I have covered on this forum many times in the past. I suggest you look at my previous lengthy posts on the subject!

I suggest you look at the empirical evidence.

05-07-2008, 11:12 AM	#31 (permalink)
BonnieDundee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Between Mallaig and Cornwall. Posts: 2,809	In fact it would seem halal could be more humane and painless. The scientific facts A team at the university of Hannover in Germany examined these claims through the use of EEG and ECG records during slaughter. Several electrodes were surgically implanted at various points of the skull of all the animals used in the experiment and they were then allowed to recover for several weeks. Some of the animals were subsequently slaughtered the halal way by making a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides together with the trachea and esophagus but leaving the spinal cord intact. The remainder were stunned before slaughter using a captive bolt pistol method as is customary in Western slaughterhouses. The EEG and ECG recordings allowed to monitor the condition of the brain and heart throughout. The Halal method With the halal method of slaughter, there was not change in the EEG graph for the first three seconds after the incision was made, indicating that the animal did not feel any pain from the cut itself. This is not surprising. Often, if we cut ourselves with a sharp implement, we do not notice until some time later. The following three seconds were characterised by a condition of deep sleep-like unconciousness brought about by the draining of large quantities of blood from the body. Thereafter the EEG recorded a zero reading, indicating no pain at all, yet at that time the heart was still beating and the body convulsing vigorously as a reflex reaction of the spinal cord. It is this phase which is most unpleasant to onlookers who are falsely convinced that the animal suffers whilst its brain does actually no longer record any sensual messages. The Western method Using the Western method, the animals were apparently unconscious after stunning, and this method of dispatch would appear to be much more peaceful for the onlooker. However, the EEG readings indicated severe pain immediately after stunning. Whereas in the first example, the animal ceases to feel pain due to the brain starvation of blood and oxygen – a brain death, to put it in laymen’s terms – the second example first causes a stoppage of the heart whilst the animal still feels pain. However, there are no unsightly convulsions, which not only means that there is more blood retention in the meat, but also that this method lends itself much more conveniently to the efficiency demands of modern mass slaughter procedures. It is so much easier to dispatch an animal on the conveyor belt, if it does not move __________________ "It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state." -Bruce Schneier How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and pss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.* Edward Abbey Leopold Kohr.

05-07-2008, 11:14 AM	#32 (permalink)
The Bear Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: East Anglia Posts: 2,178	Bit of a shame we’ve gone down this rat hole when the real issue is the disgusting case of kids being punished for not “praying to Allah” in a British school. In my opinion not only should schools be absolutely secular and I mean absolutely and in every respect, and the teaching of any religion to a child under the age of around fourteen considered child abuse of the worst kind short of having engaged in an act of sex. That apart, for some “fils de puta” to have DARED to demand of a non Muslim child to pray to Allah, much less punish them when they rightly did not, should result in the instant dismissal of the individual and his banning from being involved with any kids ever again. __________________ I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

05-07-2008, 05:48 PM	#38 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: erewhon Posts: 5,638	Animals for slaughter should be killed as humanly as possible for the simple reason of better tasting meat if nothing else but the mark of a civilised society is how humane it is not only to animals but the weak and sick as well Halal and Kosher were humane when they were formulated but time moves on and advances are made and religions should move on as well, funny how the advances they adopt generally involve an ability to kill more unbelievers more quickly and efficiently btw one of my junior schools was opposite an abattoir __________________ "That government is best which governs least." "This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries". "To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful." TANSTAAFL TANJ

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05-07-2008, 11:31 AM	#33 (permalink)
NickIrons Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bienne, Switzerland Posts: 494	I am merely stating that to slit the throat of any mammal will cause pain to some extent, to claim that it would be painless is nonsense, and nothing else. I in no way condoned or refuted Halal/Kosher/Western methods of slaughter, cutting the throat of any mammal will cause pain. And if you wish to say "Son of a b itch" in French, it ends in an "e" not "a"