The Bear

In this case there was no appeal for witnesses.

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I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

London Orbital

You used the word 'alleged'. So why wouldn't there be an appeal for witnesses? Presumably the presence of witnesses could help establish the facts in this case?

Anyway I'm always having to write to my local paper about this....They will, for example, nervously print police appeals for witnesses to a gang assault which omit to mention the gang's ethnicity.

Surely the burning question, I point out, is what f****** colour they are!


You are asking for an investigation into why these four pieces of vermin were not admitted to Shillibeers......And you are being quite serious?

The Bear

Yes, Very.

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I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

Seasider

Why?

I know numerous people who have been turned away from different venues for many many reasons.
It might have cut short their night out, but they didn't go on to stab someone and brutally kill, nor did they go to the police to have their refusal investigated.

My guess is that if 4 white youths had been turned away you would give it no more thought at all.

The Bear

Because it smacks of racism.

Murder is a terrible crime, but racism affects far more people and devastates many more lives if left unchecked.

There is not yet any proof that the people who were refused entry were responsible for the killing, they are innocent until proven guilty and so should not be pilloried, nor is there any evidence that they were refused entry for any other reason than their ethnicity.

You’re right, unless they were refused entry to a predominantly black club, in which case I certainly would. Racism is not a unidirectional thing.

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I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

Mikeuk

What utter rubbish.

I wonder who brainwashed Bear? I'm afraid it must be a function of approaching senility.

Seasider

I am sure that Ben Kinsella's family would find that very difficult to comprehend.

Unless of course you are saying he was murdered because he was white.

The Bear

Of course his family would find the thing that was directly affecting them here and now would be of the utmost importance but that is why the rest of us must take a "30,000 feet" viewpoint.

The bigger picture remains one in which race discrimination and all that goes with it affects far more people and for a far longer time scale than even the worst individual criminal incident.

As to why he was murdered, the police are said to be keeping an open mind.

To date there is not one scintilla of evidence that race or ethnicity was at the heart of this or even a contributory factor which is why the press that did identify the race of the people alleged to have been instrumental or even involved in his death were so very wrong to do so.

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I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

Mikeuk

Utter bullsh*t. Who brainwashed you with that cr*p?

One wonders why all these 'ethnics' came here in the first place if they knew they were going to be subjected to a crime worse than murder.

John Cooper

My wife and brother in law who are non white immigrants have suffered mild racism in the UK and the murder of a cousin in Guatemala.
I think they would say murder hurt them a lot more. I really hope you never find out how wrong you are the hard way.