Anglicans form 'new church' in gay clergy row

For_England · 30-06-2008, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david H

Does Boot make any specific points?

He does a survey of music, art, everything, and talks about all the different influences that inspired them, until the point we have reached today. He talks a lot about the Enlightenment, and I recall him mentioning his dislike of Beethoven because of the humanistic triumphalism of his music. Actually I need to have a whole lot more background knowledge before I can fully grasp all of his points, but I do highly recommend the book - I think you'd love it.

The Bear · 30-06-2008, 06:22 AM

The Roman Catholic Church is a church only in the broad meaning of the word, the Roman Catholic Church is an organisation that uses Christianity as the basis for its (claimed) authority.

For_England · 30-06-2008, 06:45 AM

... not sure how that point is relevant, though I agree with it.

Millennium3 · 30-06-2008, 08:15 AM

A strong faith, of some kind, is fundamental to the success of a nation. Such a few Muslims would not have been able to have dominated our society if a strong faith existed in our nationals. Britain is falling apart on so many fronts - it's difficult to see where a line in the sand will be drawn because everything that made it great has been eroded.

BonnieDundee · 30-06-2008, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by For_England

If the established Church of England falls away from the catholic and apostolic faith, then theologically it ceases to be a true church, and the true Church of England continues in the faithful ministry of apostolic successors. The Church of England is an ancient Church that has gone through various relationships with the State - the state does not define it, for the Church precedes it. The State can set up anything it wants and call it Christianity, but if the doctrinal and historic foundations are removed, it is an empty claim, and such a church is really a waste of time, because it doesn't represent the Bible or the Christian faith, or the God of the Christian faith. It certainly is not a continuation of the Church planted by Augustine and reformed by Tyndale, Latimer, Ridley, Jewell and others. These doctrinal standards transcend the cultural whims of western society, and they are either true or false. If they are wrong, then why even bother going through the motions of religious pretence: we might as well eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die. The Church is the pillar and ground of the truth, not the reflection of a fallen, dying, and morally bankrupt culture. That's like saying that the Flat Earth Society is still the Flat Earth Society, even after people have crept into leadership positions claiming to accept the standards of the society,while not holding them, and then changing the Society to accept a spherical earth and helio-centrism. There is certainly nothing moral about swearing before God to uphold the Christian faith, lying under oath and claiming a belief in the Bible and the 39 Articles, while not believing them.

None of this matters if it doesn't recognise the authority of the archbishop of Canterbury and the monarch.

Anyway xtian scripture evolved over hundreds of years and we don't really know what its original beliefs were, the orthodoxy bears the clear marks of Jewish, pagan and Greek philosophic influence, and what the apostles really believed if they in fact existed. None of the canon gospels(or indeed the non-canon ones.) are thought to be authored by people who knew Jesus or even people who knew people who knew Jesus, by serious scholars at least. And there are gospels as old as the canon that did not make it into the canon. Even those epistles of Paul which are often thought to be genuine and by no means certainly so and by no means give anything near the complete Xtian doctrine that is orthodox today.

Millennium3 · 30-06-2008, 09:32 AM

I don't really want to butt into your theological debate, but, as far as the nation is concerned, isn't the problem that Christianity no longer grips British nationals and the pursuit of pleasure has replaced any higher belief as the meaning of life?

The pursuit of pleasure may be a delight, but it does weaken individual's inner resolve and opens the door to other cultures/religions which are far more firmly rooted in the practitioners hearts.

This is an observance, not a judgement.

Mikeuk · 30-06-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BonnieDundee

How is it the Anglican church if it splits? The Anglican Church is the established church, that is its role. If you are willing to split from it you have no business being in it.

Anyway let the homophobes go, to the regular community they look like bigots and nuts anyway, I'm tempted to send a letter of support to Archbiship Williams. Heck I'm tempted to start going to the real Church of England's services.

Yes why don't you? There are already enough atheists, heretics etc in the rump C of E for it to make no difference.

About half the worldwide congregation are already in rebellion, but the rump still contains a vast number of unhappy Christians who will now use the threat of schism to restore orthodoxy.

The dissidents represent that part of the C of E which is young, thriving and committed to Christian values. The rump represents a church that is old, dying and riven by disbelief and heresy.

A truly democratic worldwide church will be dominated by orthodoxy. It will be time for the homosexuals and their friends to take a running jump and there will be no welcome for them in the RC Church.

Im also delighted to see that the 1662 Prayerbook is to be promoted, as indeed I was delighted to see that the Pope is bringing back the Latin Mass.

The Bear · 30-06-2008, 09:38 AM

There are some people who are just so suited for Islam and all it brings ......

Millennium3 · 30-06-2008, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bear

There are some people who are just so suited for Islam and all it brings ......

I don't think children are much different to one another, however if their parents have an absolute belief in their religion they will purposely indoctrinate their children with the same beliefs, because they will honestly believe they are doing what is best for them.

BonnieDundee · 30-06-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

Yes why don't you? There are already enough atheists, heretics etc in the rump C of E for it to make no difference.

About half the worldwide congregation are already in rebellion, but the rump still contains a vast number of unhappy Christians who will now use the threat of schism to restore orthodoxy.

The dissidents represent that part of the C of E which is young, thriving and committed to Christian values. The rump represents a church that is old, dying and riven by disbelief and heresy.

A truly democratic worldwide church will be dominated by orthodoxy. It will be time for the homosexuals and their friends to take a running jump and there will be no welcome for them in the RC Church.

Im also delighted to see that the 1662 Prayerbook is to be promoted, as indeed I was delighted to see that the Pope is bringing back the Latin Mass.

You really do belong in the bible belt of the US in many ways. You are dreaming if you think that kind of fundamentalism has any sway in the UK except among a tiny and shrinking minority.

30-06-2008, 06:22 AM	#22 (permalink)
The Bear Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: East Anglia Posts: 2,178	The Roman Catholic Church is a church only in the broad meaning of the word, the Roman Catholic Church is an organisation that uses Christianity as the basis for its (claimed) authority. __________________ I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

30-06-2008, 09:38 AM	#28 (permalink)
The Bear Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: East Anglia Posts: 2,178	There are some people who are just so suited for Islam and all it brings ...... __________________ I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

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30-06-2008, 06:45 AM	#23 (permalink)
For_England Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,691	... not sure how that point is relevant, though I agree with it.

30-06-2008, 08:15 AM	#24 (permalink)
Millennium3 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,210	A strong faith, of some kind, is fundamental to the success of a nation. Such a few Muslims would not have been able to have dominated our society if a strong faith existed in our nationals. Britain is falling apart on so many fronts - it's difficult to see where a line in the sand will be drawn because everything that made it great has been eroded.

30-06-2008, 09:32 AM	#26 (permalink)
Millennium3 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Berkshire Posts: 4,210	I don't really want to butt into your theological debate, but, as far as the nation is concerned, isn't the problem that Christianity no longer grips British nationals and the pursuit of pleasure has replaced any higher belief as the meaning of life? The pursuit of pleasure may be a delight, but it does weaken individual's inner resolve and opens the door to other cultures/religions which are far more firmly rooted in the practitioners hearts. This is an observance, not a judgement.