BonnieDundee

This is an interesting topic which I came across on another board I frequent.

Basically there are two immigrants to Britain there, one is French and one is an Israeli Xtian. They are both liberals and very much pro-EU and passionately advocate the EU when the subject comes up. The French one even explicitly states he wants a federal EU state.

I personally consider it rather impolite and rude for immigrants to passionately advise country's which have welcomed them to give up sovereignty and even independence. Of course they don't think so.

What do others think? Do you feel immigrants are rude to be outwardly pro-EU?

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"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

Unionist

I don't agree with you on this one, BonnieDundee.

I do believe that immigrants need to observe the laws and customs of the country but expressing this or that political view within the normal bounds of debate is perfectly right and proper. Once people have been accepted into our country they should have the same rights and freedoms as the rest of us and not be made to feel that they are second class citizens in any way.

It is also the case that many people in this country would agree with them so ironically they seem to have 'integrated' rather well.

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BonnieDundee

Indeed 26% of people by a recent poll.

This is different to most political views it is expressing the idea that the state which accepted you and welcomed you should give up its sovereignty. It is quite rude and ungrateful. If they don't like the gov't they could always leave.

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.

Unionist

But the state which has accepted and welcomed them is itself pursuing the EU project. I don't see in those circumstances how they are being impolite.

I would also not wish my views on governance to be circumscribed if I moved to another country even though I may need to go through certain requirements (e.g., taking up citizenship) in order to vote.

Allowing free political debate is important for the legitimacy of the system and I would argue that sovereignty is meaningless where the political system lacks legitimacy. So therefore the interventions by your French and Israeli friends may be irksome to you but to try to prevent such people speaking out (if only by moral censure rather than legal sanction) may be even more damaging in terms of political legitimacy.

I accept that you are saying that it is 'impolite' rather than simply wrong but you could equally argue that they are more in tune with the (pro-EU) state that welcomed them than are most of the people on this forum.

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BonnieDundee

I'm just guessing but might you not be a euroscepitc?

Not with popular support it is not and that doesn't change the situation unless they are just arguing to support the gov't in all it does. And of course it is as much the people as the gov't who matter.

Not really, I don't see that at all we are talking about rudeness not banning by law.

And the people of Britain of course. Only 27% want full EU membership.

__________________
"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.