News: Muslim-Nazi link proven!

BonnieDundee · 30-06-2008, 01:32 AM

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Originally Posted by John Cooper

Who wrote the NT ?

We don't know, probably by different people none of which knew Jesus and also probably didn't even know someone who knew Jesus.

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From Mussolini :-

Sounds a bit like an Islamic state.

It also sounds like it could of come straight from the pages of Rousseau.

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True in an Islamic state non muslims can exist but have less value E.g in Iran non Muslims can not hold various offices.

Actually it is rather different, the causation is reversed for a start. The fundamentalist Muslims wanted Islam to shape the state whereas fascists want the state to shape spiritual values as Rousseau and theJacobins in general.

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BTW Nazism and Fascism are different. A Nazi is a fascist but not all fascists are Nazis.
Fascism is a general term used for various political beliefs where the state is all powerful, certain groups of people are second class and lack of freedom of belief e.g you can not vote and sometimes change religion. Eg Communism, Phlangism, Islam, the original Fascists and Nazism some are worse than others but all evil. Fortunately all but one of these has been defeated in the west.

I think that is a bit simplistic a definition and could include an awful lot of xtian states from Hanovarian England to Byzantium. But anyway, I'm not sure it matters, I don't see a direct link between fascism and Islam.

BonnieDundee · 30-06-2008, 01:34 AM

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Originally Posted by The Nationalist

Was Griffin a holocaust denier?
Did he deny the whole holocaust or just the scale?

There has been a problem with archaeological evidence due to not being able to exam all the graves and apparently many were cremated leaving even less evidence behind. There is clear evidence the Jews were killed on a large scale but how large may be hard to determine. You can never just trust history as written records are often done the people in power looking at video evidence and hard archaeological proof is the only way. I don’t believe there was an exact record of how many Jews lived in Germany at the time so the scale was largely based on an estimate.

There is more evidence now than there was then and Griffin no longer denies the holocaust and after presented the evidence he believes the scale is likely to be more towards the original estimate. I studied archaeology at university and only 30% of the time history lines up directly with the evidence without archaeology we would believe the world was only 6000 years old as that is as far back as history went and that is the date estimated from the bible.

I know all about archaeology. I'd say denying the figures in this case is the same thing as holocaust denial. It is called the holocaust because of the scale, if you reduce the figures greatly it is not really the holocaust any more. And let's not pretend Griffin had anything but an anti-semitic motive for this which doubly makes it denialism. I'd say his later views are more to do with making his party more acceptable adn obviously the fact Muslims are now the major target.

John Cooper · 30-06-2008, 08:52 AM

The NT was written on the whole by Jews - how can it be anti semitic.

You say that you don't see any similarities between a religion whose founder said "Whoever changes his religion kill him" and fascism, that is amazing. You do not think that has anything in common ?
BTW Jesus never said people who leave Christianity should be killed.

The Bear · 30-06-2008, 09:08 AM

Written by Jews, edited by Romans.

BonnieDundee · 30-06-2008, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Cooper

The NT was written on the whole by Jews - how can it be anti semitic.

Because it blames them for the death of the saviour. And the NT is believed, by serious scholars at least, to have been written by no one who knew Jesus or who knew someone who knew him. The influence of Greeks and Romans is great on it.

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You say that you don't see any similarities between a religion whose founder said "Whoever changes his religion kill him" and fascism, that is amazing. You do not think that has anything in common ?

We aren't talking about extremely general and broad similarities but direct links.

The Bear · 30-06-2008, 10:05 AM

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Originally Posted by BonnieDundee

Because it blames them for the death of the saviour.

But DOES it?

It’s all too easy to say “The Jews” as if they were a homogeneous mass but in fact they were not.

There’s an interesting article here

Who Killed Jesus? - Scripture From Scratch March©2004

that’s worth a look at least.

BonnieDundee · 30-06-2008, 10:08 AM

Some of the NT implies it and it has certainly been interpreted that way very often, which is what matters.

30-06-2008, 09:08 AM	#44 (permalink)
The Bear Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: East Anglia Posts: 2,178	Written by Jews, edited by Romans. __________________ I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

30-06-2008, 10:08 AM	#47 (permalink)
BonnieDundee Uber Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Between Mallaig and Cornwall. Posts: 2,809	Some of the NT implies it and it has certainly been interpreted that way very often, which is what matters. __________________ "It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state." -Bruce Schneier How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and pss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.* Edward Abbey Leopold Kohr.

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30-06-2008, 08:52 AM	#43 (permalink)
John Cooper Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 333	The NT was written on the whole by Jews - how can it be anti semitic. You say that you don't see any similarities between a religion whose founder said "Whoever changes his religion kill him" and fascism, that is amazing. You do not think that has anything in common ? BTW Jesus never said people who leave Christianity should be killed.