Henry

The Bear

No, the reason that Britain doesn’t have a world class armed services is that Britain is no longer a world class nation and so can’t and moreover SHOULDN’T try to have a world class armed services beyond that which is necessary to defend Britain.

Note the word DEFEND.

What Blair did was send out what had been reduced to a defence force to be a belligerence force.

As for Europe, we must differ, I am an absolute supporter of full integration of Britain into Europe at all levels. That includes an EU military force.

In my opinion the path that the US is following is becoming more and more US centered and that is more and more NOT in our and indeed Europe’s interest. If we are going to get into bed with others those others should not include the US.

A good start would be to get the US bases and especially their early warning facilities the hell out of Britain and Europe.

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I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

VanillaSpice

The military is not just a national force but a natural one. They can merge.

Westcountryman

And defend her interests abroad. We have numerous territories and shipping lanes to defend.

Why? It's in our interest to have US troops here.

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Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

The Bear

All that I can think about are a bunch of inconsequential little islands that with the possible exception of the Falklands aren’t worth the effort, and Gibraltar that will soon be a part of Spain anyway as we all become a single USE.

As for the shipping lanes, get real.

Having the US forces in Britain makes us a target for any aggressor intent on attacking the US especially if we continue to put up with their radar outposts here and in the rest of Europe, radar that forms a part of the US defence shield and does Sweet Fanny Adams for us or Europe.

The idea that the US would come galloping to our aid if we were in danger was blown out of the water with the outbreak of WW2 where with the exception of selling armaments to both sides the US did nothing for us alone until they were given a bloody nose at Pearl Harbour.

We actually have far more to thank the Russians for than the US, had it not been for Hitler going after the USSR in the (correct) belief that he had crushed Britain he world have had his forces invade us and the US would have done NOTHING.

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I am an old man. I have eaten much salt.

kernow

Bear, you and I are as far apart as Irish Catholics and Protestants. ( but not I hope, as far as we'll blow each others heads off!) I will never change my opinion on the EU and I doubt if you will either, so there's no point in you and I debating with each other any subject that involves the EU!

Westcountryman

'Get real'? DO you have any idea how heavily the UK relies on shipping? 95% of all goods traded by the UK arrive or depart by sea. Protecting shipping lanes is a no-brainer. Also, defending British subjects abroad (ie. Falklands etc) is necessary if only out of principle. That you would abandon countrymen in their time of need is disgusting.

Being a leading nation in both NATO and Western Europe we're a target anyway. I also disagree that having US troops stationed here doesn't bring any benefit to Europe. Providing a base of operations allows for quick deployment to Europe, Africa and the middle east if necessary. It also means that should any NATO member be attacked, there are already US troops in Europe able to respond.

The US did send not only equipment, but also advisors and service personnel.

Correct belief that he had crushed Britain? Really, so what was the Battle of Britain all about then? We were walking in Berlin in 1945.

The USSR may have sacrificed the most during the war, but that in no way belittles the effort of the other Allies.

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Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

g hall

You really need to look at an atlas and see that some of these little islands are important staging posts and I'm sure the Gibraltarians will have something to say about Spain and the USE


A lot of piracy happens now how do you thing the British Empire evolved trade and the Navy - read some history

Some American politicians where bias against the UK in WW2 Joe Kennedy for example but many others helped and supported as did many ordinary Americans
The big thing we can thank the Russians for is complicity with the Nazis in invading Poland which kicked off WW2 but I suppose people who don't study history and geography will continue to make idiotic statements like that.
I'm sorry Bear but many of your comments seem to be made without resorting to facts which as I said before is idiotic

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"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."

Mikeuk

The Tories weren't too worried about a standing army in the time of the Stuarts. They changed their tune after the Hanoverian/Whig seizure of power.

Mikeuk

I can't get over the sailor who cried when his ipod was taken away from him by the Iranians. Of course they're recruiting poofters these days so the armed services are clearly going to the dogs.

Remember that fool who said he was fighting for women's rights in Afghanistan and promptly got his head blown off. Serve the stupid bugg*r right.

I'm paying his wages and I couldn't give a toss about women's so-called rights in Afghanistan. What people do in sh*tholes like Afghanistan is their business and has nothing to do with us whatsoever.