Akria

As someone who is very much against nationalism and indeed patriotism, I found that quite interesting and in many cases quite accurate, as well as thought-provoking.
Thank you for posting it.

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Stoic Thinker

My pleasure. I am a firm believer in distinguishing between nationalism and patriotism - i.e. in the difference between irrationally believing your country to be innately superior to all others, and in wishing to protect your the interests of your country.

Akria

I assume then that you are a patriot by such a definition?
To what degree do you wish to protect the interests of your own country, may I ask?

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I look forward to the days when people will define themselves by their humanity rather than their country.

Users on ignore list: None, and there never shall be.

Stoic Thinker

I think the definition given is fairly accurate, though undetailed.
By such a definition, would you consider yourself to be a patriot?
As to the lengths one would go to to protect the interests of your country, who knows until presented with the choices or consequences?

Akria

A good answer.
By that definition, though, I am uncertain as to whether I could be considered a patriot.
I wish to protect the interests of humanity as a whole more than those of the nation.

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I look forward to the days when people will define themselves by their humanity rather than their country.

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Stoic Thinker

Noble sentiments.
No offence, but could you be any vaguer or more naive?
I think most people wish to protect the interests of humanity, but who decides what is in humanity's best interests?
If everyone decided to act for what they thought were humanity's best interests, would that not be a certain way to create conflict?

The bottom line is that all nations and peoples are selfish and self-centred, and this will never change.

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Akria

You say no offence but then go on to insult me. How odd.
If you did not mean to cause offence then why say offensive things in the first place?

Who decides?
Whoever is making a decision that affects humanity. Only they can. If they make the wrong choice then there's not much we can do except try to rectify it.

I might ask the same question of you - if everyone decided to act in what they thought were their country's best interests, would that not be an even more certain way to create conflict?
Say, as the British people decided that it would be in Britain's best interests to invade and steal the natural resources of other nations?

The bottom line is that all nations are merely concepts with no solid foundation, and that peoples can change as shown by the relative tolerance for homosexuals by the Church today, and that as it is not a nation which makes a decision but the people in charge that the attitudes shown in international diplomacy can change.

You call me naive when you are not me. You did not partake of the experience of the many months in which I have formed my opinions on logical structures which are based on foundations I have discussed with others and believe to be correct.
I spent time constructing my beliefs. I am no more naive than anyone else who has actually thought about their positions.

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I look forward to the days when people will define themselves by their humanity rather than their country.

Users on ignore list: None, and there never shall be.

g hall

The insult must be in the eye of the beholder I saw no insult and I doubt any objective person did - your claim does give your attitude away which others have commented on

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BonnieDundee

Would you describe yourself then as a libertarian socialist/marxist?(Not a loaded question, I've read many and am influenced by many as I am rightwing decentralists and libertarians as well.).

I agree with many but some are a little too old left for me.

I'm actually never read that one. It looks good. Have you read his article on Tea?

A Nice Cup of Tea by George Orwell

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How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
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Leopold Kohr.

BonnieDundee

I believe in patriotism but I think it shouldn't be too intense and should certainly start with your family and local area and be far stronger for these local bodies than for anything the size of England or Scotland which are beyond the measure of humans to fully know. In those notes Orwell talks about patriotism being attachment to a particular place and England isn't a "place" on any human scale, I think it is negative to have anything but vague warm pride and recognition for it. Anything else seems the worship of an abstraction.

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"It is poor civic hygiene to install technologies that could someday facilitate a police state."
-Bruce Schneier

How to Overthrow the System: brew your own beer; kick in your TV; build your own cabin and p*ss off front porch whenever you bloody well feel like it.
Edward Abbey

Leopold Kohr.