Prosecute Fiona McKeown in the name of family values?

Claire · 17-03-2008, 08:46 AM

It seems that the sad truth is that most British parents allow their adolescent children to have under-aged sex, probably under the paternal roof, and consider themselves to be sufficiently good parents if their under-aged children are given an adequate supply of condoms and contraceptive pills with which to start their sex lives ...

I am now expected to congratulate friends, family and neighbours who are the pathetically grateful grandparents of illegitimate grandchildren. They understandably feel they must acknowledge these little ********, or else have no grandchildren at all to acknowledge.

I am aware of that most grandchildren these days are illegitimate anyway, even amongst the "respectable" middle classes, and most grandparents are too afraid to express disapproval of illegitimate grandchildren for fear of losing contact with their children altogether.

Fear not, O Frightened Grandparents to-be of Potentially Illegitimate Grandchildren! Your children will expect to inherit from you when you depart this world so really, you do have the whip hand. The option of disinheriting your children who have extra-marital offspring exists, subject to the provisions of The Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975.

Perhaps if you told them before they became sexually active that you will have a problem with illegitimate grandchildren, you could have nipped the problem in the bud?

I suspect most parents never get round to this. The embarrassment of undergoing this process and seeming, God forbid, eek, judgmental and illiberal, is enough to send most parents scurrying away into silence and avoidance.

I have been called vindictive and vengeful for seeking to make an example of Fiona McKeown, by suggesting that she be prosecuted for aiding and abetting under-aged sex. It is not that hard to prove that this feckless mother “arranged and facilitated the commission “of a child sex offence. After all, under s 14 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, Fiona McKeown "arranged and facilitated" something that another person will do "in any part of the world" (that constitutes a child sex offence as defined in section 9).

Even if she were not convicted, it would prove an uncomfortable time for her and those with similar parenting styles, would it not?

Fiona McKeown left her under-aged daughter in the care of her tourist guide boyfriend whom she knew was already committing statutory rape and would in all likelihood commit further similar offences while in his "care".

I am of course assuming that no self-respecting father would knowingly let some tourist guide he had just met on holiday have sex with his 15 year old daughter or would leave his daughter in the care of such a man. Or am I also deeply mistaken in this regard? It has been has suggested that my assumptions about what constitutes good parenting are rather “un-British” and out of line with current practice.

Unfortunately, it appears that my attempt to extract a moral from the tragic death of Scarlett Keeling, so that she did not die entirely in vain, has fallen on stony ground ...

RECOMMENDED ACTION FOR THOSE WHO AGREE SHE SHOULD BE PROSECUTED:

Those of you who wish to show Fiona McKeown and people like her that better parenting styles exist in order to save her and other children from a similar fate, may wish to write to (1) the Chief Constable of the Devon and Cornwall Constabularly and (2) the Officer in Charge at Bideford Police Station along the following lines:

The Chief Constable
Stephen Otter
Devon and Cornwall Constabulary Headquarters
Middlemoor
Exeter
Devon
EX2 7HQ

and

The Officer in Charge
Bideford Police Station
New Road
Bideford
Torridge
EX39 2BW

Dear Sirs

Since there is a direct connection between promiscuity, unmarried motherhood, family breakdown, bad parenting and a higher crime rate, it is surely time something is done about these forces that are proving so destructive to British society and other societies who adopt similarly low standards.

It is not that hard to prove that Fiona McKeown of Bideford “arranged and facilitated” the commission of a child sex offence. After all, under s 14 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, Fiona McKeown could be said to have "arranged and facilitated" something that another person will do "in any part of the world" (that constituted a child sex offence as defined in section 9).

Fiona McKeown left her under-aged daughter in the care of her tourist guide boyfriend whom she knew was already committing statutory rape and would in all likelihood commit further offences while in his "care".
Not only can a case be made out, it would be very much in the public interest to prosecute her to show the repugnance all decent right-minded folk ought to feel about this kind of “parenting”.

Yours etc

1Party4all â€“ Direct democracy
Vote: Should Scarlett Keeling's mother be prosecuted for aiding and abetting under-aged sex?

The Bear · 17-03-2008, 09:54 AM

No.

She is what she is.

She is no worse than many, and a damm sight better than more than a few.

She has also just lost a daughter and faced corupt police and goodness only knows what else in the process.

chikrodah · 17-03-2008, 10:39 AM

For somebody to set themselves up as the arbiter of public decency, yet again linking to their political website, beggars belief.

Claire, nobody is forcing you to accept your own child being the parent of an illegitimate grandchild. Stop forcing your opinions on us.

Show some compassion, even if you can't understand.

If there is a legal case to answer, the appropriate authorities will make sure that happens. This country has extremely stringent laws regarding child protection and it is highly likely that Ms McKeown has already had initial interviews with both CPU officers and the social services. Just because that has not been made public doesn't mean that it hasn't happened.

Like Tony Bennett's campaign against the McCanns, this campaign of yours comes across as a determined attempt at self-publicity rather than a genuine attempt to protect others. You should be ashamed of yourself, not for your views, which you are entitled to, but your blatant promotion of a harassment campaign against a grieving mother.

Aardvark · 17-03-2008, 11:21 AM

Claire

"Decent, right minded folk" do not pursue people who are still in a period of grieving over the death of a loved one. Decent, right minded folk know that Mrs McKeown is suffering horrendously inside. Chasing a bereaved parent who has 6 other bereaved siblings to deal with is immoral, IMHO. Mrs McKeown's daughter's body is undergoing intrusive forensic tests and will, by the time the poor girl is buried, be unrecognisable as the pretty girl in the photos.

The first thing that has to happen is that the Indian police pursue the rapists and killers and bring them to justice. They are far more dangerous than Mrs McKeown and pose a threat to all young women from all nationalities who holiday in India. The fact that there has been a possible police cover up is of more concern to me than the fact that yet another girl is indulging in consensual under age sex.

We live in the world we live in and under age sex is rife. This is not the fault of any individual parent, but of the society we live in. Part of the problem lies in the fact that, arguably, the age of consent has been set artifically high and long after most females reach womanhood. The age was raised from 12 (common law) to 16 by the Victorians in order to stamp out child prostitution as many girls of 9 or 10 could be mistaken for 12. The age of 16 was settled on because it was the age at which most working class girls were marrying. The age of consent for men was 14 until very recently when it was brought in line with that for women. Nothing to do with morality, but pragmatism. Why is it moral to sleep with a girl on her 16th birthday, but not the day before?

Compulsory marriage in churches for the poor was brought in to establish control by the state in the Tudor period. Traditional 'marriage' at common law required an act of sex to consummate it. Some old customs allowed people to marry for a year and a day by jumping over a broom; reversing the action was a 'divorce'. Handfasting was also acceptable. Marriage is not a universal panacea and doesn't always make better parents and happier children; my illegitimate grandson gets more love than many a legitimate child.

Legitimacy of children was established among the ruling classes to facilitate property transfers, as was public marriage. The illegitimate could not inherit. The unwed women didn't transfer their inherited wealth to the blokes.

The Bible doesn't refer to weddings and legitimate births as we understand them. That was a later invention when the Book of Common Prayer was brought in and the Bible was translated by Cranmer to establish regal authority. The word God is not a translation of Yahweh/Jehovah. The King James version conveniently has 'witches' instead of poisoners and most translations have 'virgin' instead of slavegirl; the word Lord, which didn't exist in the original, is all over the place to the extent that we even refer to the Lord's prayer to define a prayer taught by Christ.

The morality which the modern Bible imposes is not the morality of Christ, but of St Paul.

Claire,

IMHO you are not one of the 'decent, right minded' folk. You have no moral right to dictate to Ms McKeown how she should live her life and you have no right to seek to have charges pressed against her.

If you were 'decent and right minded' and you based your morals on Christ's teachings I would refer you to John 8.7. If you like St Paul's letters read Romans 12, 17-21.

david H · 17-03-2008, 11:28 AM

Nonsense, she brought it on herself and deserves all she gets.

chikrodah · 17-03-2008, 11:31 AM

Evidence, please, not bile and venom.

The Bear · 17-03-2008, 11:31 AM

Having looked past the basis of the item and dismissed it as a thing that is at least unsavory since the poor woman has lost a daughter I have since looked a little closer and am amazed at the disambiguation.

In no particular order

Quote
” I am aware of that most grandchildren these days are illegitimate anyway, even amongst the "respectable" middle classes, and most grandparents are too afraid to express disapproval of illegitimate grandchildren for fear of losing contact with their children altogether”

Whoo Hoo! Smithers! Release the dogs! (Monty Burns in The Simpson’s)

What a disgusting thing to write! And even if true, so what?
Living outside of marriage in no big deal and even if most people do so all it shows is that having the option to walk out the door at any time and not doing so speaks volumes for the decency of the people who are not bound by law and paper.

Quote
” It is not that hard to prove that this feckless mother “arranged and facilitated the commission “of a child sex offence. After all, under s 14 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, Fiona McKeown "arranged and facilitated" something that another person will do "in any part of the world" (that constitutes a child sex offence as defined in section 9).”

Yes it IS that hard to prove, and the reason is that it simply was NOT what took place.

Quote
Fiona McKeown left her under-aged daughter in the care of her tourist guide boyfriend whom she knew was already committing statutory rape and would in all likelihood commit further similar offences while in his "care".

Now that’s libelous unless YOU can prove the assertions which I suspect that you can not. And remember, even if you are not the author of this load of dingo droppings YOU would still be liable for prosecution for communicating this material and the Forum would be liable for allowing it to remain.

There is precedence in this matter in the case of Gubay vs Manxforums (Mr Albert Gubay - An Apology - ManxForums.com - Manx Forums Chat Blogs & Classifieds for the Isle of Man ) in which Manxforums were found to have been complicit and paid £2500 as a settlement.

Quote
“Since there is a direct connection between promiscuity, unmarried motherhood, family breakdown, bad parenting and a higher crime rate”

Actually there is NO direct connection between unmarried motherhood and promiscuity or bad parenting or a higher crime rate.

To make such a claim is grossly unfair on the thousands of single women who for various reasons find themselves bringing up decent families.

Quote
It is not that hard to prove that Fiona McKeown of Bideford “arranged and facilitated” the commission of a child sex offence. After all, under s 14 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, Fiona McKeown could be said to have "arranged and facilitated" something that another person will do "in any part of the world" (that constituted a child sex offence as defined in section 9).”

It is impossible to prove, highly offensive to suggest, and is more than likely to be simply untrue.

Quote
” Fiona McKeown left her under-aged daughter in the care of her tourist guide boyfriend whom she knew was already committing statutory rape and would in all likelihood commit further offences while in his "care".
That is factually incorrect.

She left the girl in the care of the Tourist guide AND HIS AUNT and there is absolutely NO indication much less evidence that she knew or even suspected that he might commit ANY offence against her.

Once again I feel bound to report this post.

Aardvark · 17-03-2008, 11:37 AM

Selective use of the law, next subsection:

(2) A person does not commit an offence under this section if—
(a) he arranges or facilitates something that he believes another person will do, but that he does not intend to do or intend another person to do, and
(b) any offence within subsection (1)(b) would be an offence against a child for whose protection he acts.

Tara · 17-03-2008, 11:39 AM

The woman deserves our compassion, losing a child the way she has is punishment enough, a punishment she will suffer for the rest of her life. A friend of mine spent a few months in Goa many years ago and told me how corrupt the police are and are open to and often demand financial bribes so can believe there may have been a police cover up concerning the rape and murder of this woman's daughter.

I do though, support Claire in her views on illegitimacy and the general moral degeneracy of western society, although not the fault of any individual but cultural Marxist ideology forced upon us in the last 40 odd years.

Aardvark · 17-03-2008, 11:40 AM

Bear, just read the link to Gubay case. claire is, IMHO, guilty of grievous insults and possible defamations and I have no option other than to lock this thread and ban Claire.

17-03-2008, 08:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
Claire Banned Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: England Posts: 27	Prosecute Fiona McKeown in the name of family values? It seems that the sad truth is that most British parents allow their adolescent children to have under-aged sex, probably under the paternal roof, and consider themselves to be sufficiently good parents if their under-aged children are given an adequate supply of condoms and contraceptive pills with which to start their sex lives ... I am now expected to congratulate friends, family and neighbours who are the pathetically grateful grandparents of illegitimate grandchildren. They understandably feel they must acknowledge these little ********, or else have no grandchildren at all to acknowledge. I am aware of that most grandchildren these days are illegitimate anyway, even amongst the "respectable" middle classes, and most grandparents are too afraid to express disapproval of illegitimate grandchildren for fear of losing contact with their children altogether. Fear not, O Frightened Grandparents to-be of Potentially Illegitimate Grandchildren! Your children will expect to inherit from you when you depart this world so really, you do have the whip hand. The option of disinheriting your children who have extra-marital offspring exists, subject to the provisions of The Inheritance (Provision for Family and Dependants) Act 1975. Perhaps if you told them before they became sexually active that you will have a problem with illegitimate grandchildren, you could have nipped the problem in the bud? I suspect most parents never get round to this. The embarrassment of undergoing this process and seeming, God forbid, eek, judgmental and illiberal, is enough to send most parents scurrying away into silence and avoidance. I have been called vindictive and vengeful for seeking to make an example of Fiona McKeown, by suggesting that she be prosecuted for aiding and abetting under-aged sex. It is not that hard to prove that this feckless mother “arranged and facilitated the commission “of a child sex offence. After all, under s 14 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, Fiona McKeown "arranged and facilitated" something that another person will do "in any part of the world" (that constitutes a child sex offence as defined in section 9). Even if she were not convicted, it would prove an uncomfortable time for her and those with similar parenting styles, would it not? Fiona McKeown left her under-aged daughter in the care of her tourist guide boyfriend whom she knew was already committing statutory rape and would in all likelihood commit further similar offences while in his "care". I am of course assuming that no self-respecting father would knowingly let some tourist guide he had just met on holiday have sex with his 15 year old daughter or would leave his daughter in the care of such a man. Or am I also deeply mistaken in this regard? It has been has suggested that my assumptions about what constitutes good parenting are rather “un-British” and out of line with current practice. Unfortunately, it appears that my attempt to extract a moral from the tragic death of Scarlett Keeling, so that she did not die entirely in vain, has fallen on stony ground ... RECOMMENDED ACTION FOR THOSE WHO AGREE SHE SHOULD BE PROSECUTED: Those of you who wish to show Fiona McKeown and people like her that better parenting styles exist in order to save her and other children from a similar fate, may wish to write to (1) the Chief Constable of the Devon and Cornwall Constabularly and (2) the Officer in Charge at Bideford Police Station along the following lines: The Chief Constable Stephen Otter Devon and Cornwall Constabulary Headquarters Middlemoor Exeter Devon EX2 7HQ and The Officer in Charge Bideford Police Station New Road Bideford Torridge EX39 2BW Dear Sirs Since there is a direct connection between promiscuity, unmarried motherhood, family breakdown, bad parenting and a higher crime rate, it is surely time something is done about these forces that are proving so destructive to British society and other societies who adopt similarly low standards. It is not that hard to prove that Fiona McKeown of Bideford “arranged and facilitated” the commission of a child sex offence. After all, under s 14 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, Fiona McKeown could be said to have "arranged and facilitated" something that another person will do "in any part of the world" (that constituted a child sex offence as defined in section 9). Fiona McKeown left her under-aged daughter in the care of her tourist guide boyfriend whom she knew was already committing statutory rape and would in all likelihood commit further offences while in his "care". Not only can a case be made out, it would be very much in the public interest to prosecute her to show the repugnance all decent right-minded folk ought to feel about this kind of “parenting”. Yours etc 1Party4all â€“ Direct democracy Vote: Should Scarlett Keeling's mother be prosecuted for aiding and abetting under-aged sex?

17-03-2008, 11:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,987	Claire "Decent, right minded folk" do not pursue people who are still in a period of grieving over the death of a loved one. Decent, right minded folk know that Mrs McKeown is suffering horrendously inside. Chasing a bereaved parent who has 6 other bereaved siblings to deal with is immoral, IMHO. Mrs McKeown's daughter's body is undergoing intrusive forensic tests and will, by the time the poor girl is buried, be unrecognisable as the pretty girl in the photos. The first thing that has to happen is that the Indian police pursue the rapists and killers and bring them to justice. They are far more dangerous than Mrs McKeown and pose a threat to all young women from all nationalities who holiday in India. The fact that there has been a possible police cover up is of more concern to me than the fact that yet another girl is indulging in consensual under age sex. We live in the world we live in and under age sex is rife. This is not the fault of any individual parent, but of the society we live in. Part of the problem lies in the fact that, arguably, the age of consent has been set artifically high and long after most females reach womanhood. The age was raised from 12 (common law) to 16 by the Victorians in order to stamp out child prostitution as many girls of 9 or 10 could be mistaken for 12. The age of 16 was settled on because it was the age at which most working class girls were marrying. The age of consent for men was 14 until very recently when it was brought in line with that for women. Nothing to do with morality, but pragmatism. Why is it moral to sleep with a girl on her 16th birthday, but not the day before? Compulsory marriage in churches for the poor was brought in to establish control by the state in the Tudor period. Traditional 'marriage' at common law required an act of sex to consummate it. Some old customs allowed people to marry for a year and a day by jumping over a broom; reversing the action was a 'divorce'. Handfasting was also acceptable. Marriage is not a universal panacea and doesn't always make better parents and happier children; my illegitimate grandson gets more love than many a legitimate child. Legitimacy of children was established among the ruling classes to facilitate property transfers, as was public marriage. The illegitimate could not inherit. The unwed women didn't transfer their inherited wealth to the blokes. The Bible doesn't refer to weddings and legitimate births as we understand them. That was a later invention when the Book of Common Prayer was brought in and the Bible was translated by Cranmer to establish regal authority. The word God is not a translation of Yahweh/Jehovah. The King James version conveniently has 'witches' instead of poisoners and most translations have 'virgin' instead of slavegirl; the word Lord, which didn't exist in the original, is all over the place to the extent that we even refer to the Lord's prayer to define a prayer taught by Christ. The morality which the modern Bible imposes is not the morality of Christ, but of St Paul. Claire, IMHO you are not one of the 'decent, right minded' folk. You have no moral right to dictate to Ms McKeown how she should live her life and you have no right to seek to have charges pressed against her. If you were 'decent and right minded' and you based your morals on Christ's teachings I would refer you to John 8.7. If you like St Paul's letters read Romans 12, 17-21. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008 Last edited by Aardvark; 17-03-2008 at 11:27 AM.

17-03-2008, 11:28 AM	#5 (permalink)
david H Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,919	Nonsense, she brought it on herself and deserves all she gets. __________________ "You think you are combatting prejudice but you are at war with nature". Edmund Burke. http://www.buchanan.org/pa-98-1127.html

17-03-2008, 11:37 AM	#8 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,987	Selective use of the law, next subsection: (2) A person does not commit an offence under this section if— (a) he arranges or facilitates something that he believes another person will do, but that he does not intend to do or intend another person to do, and (b) any offence within subsection (1)(b) would be an offence against a child for whose protection he acts. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

17-03-2008, 11:40 AM	#10 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,987	Bear, just read the link to Gubay case. claire is, IMHO, guilty of grievous insults and possible defamations and I have no option other than to lock this thread and ban Claire. __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

17-03-2008, 09:54 AM	#2 (permalink)
The Bear Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: East Anglia Posts: 2,178	No. She is what she is. She is no worse than many, and a damm sight better than more than a few. She has also just lost a daughter and faced corupt police and goodness only knows what else in the process.

17-03-2008, 10:39 AM	#3 (permalink)
chikrodah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midlands Posts: 1,740	For somebody to set themselves up as the arbiter of public decency, yet again linking to their political website, beggars belief. Claire, nobody is forcing you to accept your own child being the parent of an illegitimate grandchild. Stop forcing your opinions on us. Show some compassion, even if you can't understand. If there is a legal case to answer, the appropriate authorities will make sure that happens. This country has extremely stringent laws regarding child protection and it is highly likely that Ms McKeown has already had initial interviews with both CPU officers and the social services. Just because that has not been made public doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. Like Tony Bennett's campaign against the McCanns, this campaign of yours comes across as a determined attempt at self-publicity rather than a genuine attempt to protect others. You should be ashamed of yourself, not for your views, which you are entitled to, but your blatant promotion of a harassment campaign against a grieving mother.

17-03-2008, 11:31 AM	#6 (permalink)
chikrodah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Midlands Posts: 1,740	Evidence, please, not bile and venom.

17-03-2008, 11:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
The Bear Uber Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: East Anglia Posts: 2,178	Having looked past the basis of the item and dismissed it as a thing that is at least unsavory since the poor woman has lost a daughter I have since looked a little closer and am amazed at the disambiguation. In no particular order Quote ” I am aware of that most grandchildren these days are illegitimate anyway, even amongst the "respectable" middle classes, and most grandparents are too afraid to express disapproval of illegitimate grandchildren for fear of losing contact with their children altogether” Whoo Hoo! Smithers! Release the dogs! (Monty Burns in The Simpson’s) What a disgusting thing to write! And even if true, so what? Living outside of marriage in no big deal and even if most people do so all it shows is that having the option to walk out the door at any time and not doing so speaks volumes for the decency of the people who are not bound by law and paper. Quote ” It is not that hard to prove that this feckless mother “arranged and facilitated the commission “of a child sex offence. After all, under s 14 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, Fiona McKeown "arranged and facilitated" something that another person will do "in any part of the world" (that constitutes a child sex offence as defined in section 9).” Yes it IS that hard to prove, and the reason is that it simply was NOT what took place. Quote Fiona McKeown left her under-aged daughter in the care of her tourist guide boyfriend whom she knew was already committing statutory rape and would in all likelihood commit further similar offences while in his "care". Now that’s libelous unless YOU can prove the assertions which I suspect that you can not. And remember, even if you are not the author of this load of dingo droppings YOU would still be liable for prosecution for communicating this material and the Forum would be liable for allowing it to remain. There is precedence in this matter in the case of Gubay vs Manxforums (Mr Albert Gubay - An Apology - ManxForums.com - Manx Forums Chat Blogs & Classifieds for the Isle of Man ) in which Manxforums were found to have been complicit and paid £2500 as a settlement. Quote “Since there is a direct connection between promiscuity, unmarried motherhood, family breakdown, bad parenting and a higher crime rate” Actually there is NO direct connection between unmarried motherhood and promiscuity or bad parenting or a higher crime rate. To make such a claim is grossly unfair on the thousands of single women who for various reasons find themselves bringing up decent families. Quote It is not that hard to prove that Fiona McKeown of Bideford “arranged and facilitated” the commission of a child sex offence. After all, under s 14 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, Fiona McKeown could be said to have "arranged and facilitated" something that another person will do "in any part of the world" (that constituted a child sex offence as defined in section 9).” It is impossible to prove, highly offensive to suggest, and is more than likely to be simply untrue. Quote ” Fiona McKeown left her under-aged daughter in the care of her tourist guide boyfriend whom she knew was already committing statutory rape and would in all likelihood commit further offences while in his "care". That is factually incorrect. She left the girl in the care of the Tourist guide AND HIS AUNT and there is absolutely NO indication much less evidence that she knew or even suspected that he might commit ANY offence against her. Once again I feel bound to report this post.

17-03-2008, 11:39 AM	#9 (permalink)
Tara Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 867	The woman deserves our compassion, losing a child the way she has is punishment enough, a punishment she will suffer for the rest of her life. A friend of mine spent a few months in Goa many years ago and told me how corrupt the police are and are open to and often demand financial bribes so can believe there may have been a police cover up concerning the rape and murder of this woman's daughter. I do though, support Claire in her views on illegitimacy and the general moral degeneracy of western society, although not the fault of any individual but cultural Marxist ideology forced upon us in the last 40 odd years.

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