Poor innocent lamb - what have we done ?

Akria · 23-02-2008, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tito

More to the point, are children men? They are incapable of making rational choices, the process of learning and maturity will make them men eventually (Except in the unfortunate case of the retarded)

Furthermore, as soon as a child is old enough to express his opinion he is free to leave (rather, should be)

Most of them have nowhere to go though. You stay with your parents and put up with their rules in return for living in their home, eating their food, spending their money.

It is a relationship that becomes more and more mutual as the child matures.

Irrelevant to the question. Matt's definition of fascism was the imposition of one's will upon someone else without their permission.
Therefore, regardless of whether the children are capable of making rational choices, his definition would make parents fascists (unless they happen to abandon their children).

tito · 23-02-2008, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akria

Irrelevant to the question. Matt's definition of fascism was the imposition of one's will upon someone else without their permission.
Therefore, regardless of whether the children are capable of making rational choices, his definition would make parents fascists (unless they happen to abandon their children).

Matt's definition was a little vague then; I would largely accept it if it used the word "man" not "someone"

mkpdavies · 23-02-2008, 09:27 PM

Children need a bit of fascism (from their parents), adults don't.

Aardvark · 23-02-2008, 09:40 PM

Interesting points.

Just back from the pub so will discuss some of them later.

One point, this can't be a forum for like minded people to join as there would have to be a test to see that we all agree before we join a mutual back slapping group. The forum must be for debate and discussion even though we agree on more things than we disagree. There is plenty of room for debate even were we to agree that what global warming there is was not man made. There are plenty of issues we could discuss and debate.

Matt, thanks for posting a definition of fascist that is not in accord with any dictionary. How did you arrive at that definition and why do no dictionaries agree with you? This strikes me as making a word mean precisely what you want it to mean.

Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality

or, if you have longer:

fascism: Definition and Much More from Answers.com

mkpdavies · 23-02-2008, 10:11 PM

Quote:

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

Yep that sounds about right to me.

Akria · 23-02-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Children need a bit of fascism (from their parents), adults don't.

That doesn't seem to fit too well with the libertarian philosophy you seem to follow.

And why, if fascism going by your definition is sometimes needed, do you use it as an insult? Why is it so wrong? Why do you constantly deride those who are not libertarians as fascists if you support some 'fascism' yourself?

John Connor · 23-02-2008, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aardvark

fascism: Definition and Much More from Answers.com

Of course, most of that is complete poo. Fascism is a left-wing philosophy. The definition by the inventor of it is a left wing definition, not so far removed from communism. And, lest we forget, old Benito himself was a raving leftie - much like his mate Oswald

But of course, lefties write the dictionaries because right-wingers are too busy porking supermodels.

youcanhandlethetruth · 23-02-2008, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aardvark

Interesting points.

Just back from the pub so will discuss some of them later.

One point, this can't be a forum for like minded people to join as there would have to be a test to see that we all agree before we join a mutual back slapping group. The forum must be for debate and discussion even though we agree on more things than we disagree. There is plenty of room for debate even were we to agree that what global warming there is was not man made. There are plenty of issues we could discuss and debate.

Matt, thanks for posting a definition of fascist that is not in accord with any dictionary. How did you arrive at that definition and why do no dictionaries agree with you? This strikes me as making a word mean precisely what you want it to mean.

Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality

or, if you have longer:

fascism: Definition and Much More from Answers.com

Aardvark, may I kindly ask you to read my previous post on this thread please, and comment as appropriate.

Aardvark · 24-02-2008, 03:41 PM

YCHTT, I was going to, but I need time. I have a life you know.

JC, you're right wing. Which supermodel are you porking?

John Connor · 24-02-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aardvark

JC, you're right wing. Which supermodel are you porking?

Wouldn't you like to know.

23-02-2008, 09:27 PM	#23 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 30,604	Children need a bit of fascism (from their parents), adults don't. __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems Last edited by mkpdavies; 23-02-2008 at 09:29 PM.

23-02-2008, 09:40 PM	#24 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,522	Interesting points. Just back from the pub so will discuss some of them later. One point, this can't be a forum for like minded people to join as there would have to be a test to see that we all agree before we join a mutual back slapping group. The forum must be for debate and discussion even though we agree on more things than we disagree. There is plenty of room for debate even were we to agree that what global warming there is was not man made. There are plenty of issues we could discuss and debate. Matt, thanks for posting a definition of fascist that is not in accord with any dictionary. How did you arrive at that definition and why do no dictionaries agree with you? This strikes me as making a word mean precisely what you want it to mean. Merriam Webster: Main Entry: fas·cism Pronunciation: \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\ Function: noun Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces Date: 1921 1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition 2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality or, if you have longer: fascism: Definition and Much More from Answers.com __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

24-02-2008, 03:41 PM	#29 (permalink)
Aardvark Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oxonia Posts: 3,522	YCHTT, I was going to, but I need time. I have a life you know. JC, you're right wing. Which supermodel are you porking? __________________ When in Woking do as the Wokes do. "I do not wish to form my opinions by thoughtlessly quoting others; I wish others to support their opinions by sensibly quoting me." Paul Wesson (Aardvark) 13th April 2008

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