mkpdavies

Doesn't even try to explain the way WTC7 collapsed.

Why can not one single person who believes it collapsed through fire and rubble damage do this for me? Just one source that would put my mind at ease.

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Frith

Matt, there are many now of scientific origin that can decscribe the whole process.

I would agree that the "war on terror" is a name for a war on oil rich countries and enemies of the special relationship between Israel and America in terms of this. The majority of conspiracy sites are either anarchist, left and right extremist or religious in origin. Each has some axe to grind that cannot be ground unless this incident is utilized. That doesn't alter the fact that "something is rotten in Denmark."

America appears to be collapsing (evidenced by the ludicrous batch of candidates now onstage in the run up to elections) and this indicates to me that whatever was motivating these previous cabals is not able to hold its power over them. Either funding has stopped or the international economic forces of change have shifted the goal posts in this regard so fast and to such an extent that the old regime of bedfellows and collaborators has been caught on the wrong foot.

America is staring dissolution in the face and Russia is acting, not on impulse, but in response to this change. China is spying on the US, obviously. This will happen as China wants to get ahead quickly and join the arms race and the space race on an international footing. And, as China grows economically at breakneck speed, it will be able to pay handsomely for information. From China with Love might be a suitable title for the Bond movies of the future.

The EU can forget its little plans of dominating anyone. That is coming apart too and it has Mother Russia breathing down its neck, whilst Turkey opens its once closed door to Islamic fundamentalism.

Quite a carnival of political possibilities in the future. One thing is for certain, all this backward dread and stockpiling soap and candles will pass (as it does every millennium) and a new world will present itself, governed by the economic might of Asia and with a, to many, totally surprising entry of the Arab lands into the arena of international trade and tourism.

I think many of the old brigade just weren't paying attention and they are being shaken from their pedestals by the early rumblings of a coming change.

mkpdavies

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Frith

I got this about a year ago on the net and I can't remember where it was. It must be out there somewhere.

You have to ask yourself if any western democracy would carry out the premeditated murder of upwards of 3,000 of its citizens so it could go to war.

It reminds me of the Diana conspiracies. Would the Royal family, the government and MI5, to say nothing of various other contacts of the Princess, conspire to murder some unimportant Egyptian playboy and his divorced upper class British girlfriend? For what purpose would they risk this venture? They gained nothing by it. It is a total fallacy. They didn't seem to want to murder her previous Muslim boyfriend to whom she was far closer. So much money spent (wasted) on this thing. It is an insult to the British Royal family and I am surprised they haven't found a way to sue for defamation at the very least. I know they can't, but they should be able to do so by way of others implicated in this allegation.

It is the same with 9/11. The risk of murdering 3,000 office workers, some from foreign countries would make such a venture risky in the extreme, an international outrage. It did provide the perfect chance to go to war with the Taliban. It did not provide any such excuse to go to war with Iraq and it provides no excuse to go to war with Iran.

At the rate they are cementing their resolve to attack Iran one can see that twin towers or not, this was planned long ago and 9/11 merely opened the door. If that hadn't happened they would have just used the weapons of mass destruction excuse anyway. People allowed this to happen and they will sit back and catch flies when the next invasion comes up for review. They have little choice between Obama, a radical lefty and Mccain, a part of the old order. If Obama wins the war will be off. That will annoy some very important people and Obama may have his presidency curtailed. They will blame this on the neo nazis and white supremacists. A rather volatile situation is developing there, either way. Unless some other interloper manages to win the Presidency. This will score the reprieve that could pull the USA back from the brink.

All depends on whether the people will consider thinking before they act.

mkpdavies

That doesn't answer my question at all. I don't even want to start going down the who did it and why. All I want is a clean technical description of how a building can have all it's main support collumns collapse in complete symmerty from a fire.

Governments or even just rogue elements of them in the past, have done all sorts of horrible things to their own people and even if there wasn't a long history of such things, it still doesn't mean a section of government wouldn't do it now.

It is irrelevant at this point though. The official story is that rubble damage and fire caused a massive building to collapse, just like it had been taken down by controlled demolition. Ignore all the anecdotal evidence of people hearing bombs, BBC reporting it collapsing before it had, owner saying he ordered the building to be pulled, MSM doining its best to ignore it afterwards. All I want, is a scientific explanation or how a building would collpase like this from fire.

Please can someone who is convinced the official story is true, give me the explanation that convinced you that this is possible.

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Frith

@ Matt:

From the University of Sydney:

World Trade Center - Some Engineering Aspects - Civil Engineering - The University of Sydney

From an article by Thomas W. Eagar, the Thomas Lord Professor of Materials Engineering and Engineering Systems, and Christopher Musso, graduate research student, at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation

I'm going to trust these before I trust conspiracy sites with no accountable scientific and engineering evidence or explanations.

Only reason why I believe in anything is after I've heard what experts have to say. And experts have to be experts and not oddballs with web sites about the end being nigh. Just me, I'm not saying others shouldn't scare themselves to death. That is their choice. I'll be scared to death when a recognised expert tells me to be.

This posted in good faith and in good will.

mkpdavies

Those sources talk about the main towers and not WTC7. While I think the way they disintigrated all the way down to the floor was weird, I accept that it didn't look like CD and thus I am not going to think about those for now.

This is all they put about WTC7 on their site.

Quote:

What about World Trade Center 7? I have not studied WTC in any great detail and cannot offer any theories on its collapse mechanism. In the chaos of the day, little attention was paid to WTC7, so there is less evidence available on the damage it sustained before it collapsed. However, some questions that you may want to ponder ... * While it did not receive any direct impact form the planes, how much debris hit at as the main towers collapsed and what damage did it cause? * To what extent (if any) did the shock or vibrations caused by the collapse of WTC1 & 2 affect the integrity of WTC7? * Did any unseen damage to the WTC7 foundations occur in the collapse of WTC 1 & 2? * Did any of the fire suppression systems in WTC7 function?

I find this very weak. It makes no real attempt at explaining how any of the above possibilities would make the whole build collapsed in the way it did. Even if a combination of all of those things happened at their worst, it would still not make a buidling collapse in the controlled way WTC7 did.

Is there anyone out there that has even started to try to do a real explanation of how WTC7 went down the way it did?

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Hartlepool

I'm not saying that this is how it was done in this post,just posting some info,thats all.
If a lower level of the columns had previously had its boltings and fishplates changed out for shear plates/bolts,this could cause a uniform collapse of the structure.
For example,if the parking was open for access then the Column covers could of been removed,bolts changed out one at a time and replaced for inferior fastenings.
The fishplates could have also been addressed at the same time.
Looking at that building,it would take a crew of 6 perhaps a weekend to do the job,maybe less than that,but no longer.
Shear bolts/plates are designed to shear on impact or movement,they can be installed to shear on horizontal,vertical or diagonal movements.
Shear plates and bolts are very quick and easy to make.
They can be made in your garage,garden shed or cellar.
(PS,sorry,I couldn't stay away from this place.)

mkpdavies

Welcome back.

It is addictive, I can testify.

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Frith

Oh, really, Mr Grumpy you don't honestly believe some shadowy crew did a quick and dirty on the building, do you?