Britannist

Three Cheers for Her Majesty The Queen.

This is the United KINGDOM - we are a Royalist state.

Britannist

We don't want to end up with pro-EU Heseltine, John Prescott or election losers such as the europhile Patten or Kinnock (former EU Commissioners) as our Head of State.

I mean, it wouldn't be a very nice thing telling our excellent and brave armed forces that they were serving a Head of State like one of that lot, would it?

I would also add, Smidgey, that since you are Scottish - the Union of the UK more easily stays together when we have a Monarch. There are many who would take the view that the people of Scotland might be less likely to support the Union (of the UK) if the Head of State were an elected President (i.e. businessman, ex-politician or a celebrity) - someone voted in by an electorate in which the Scottish proportion would be about 10%. Our Monarchy is part of the history of Scotland as well as England and both Scots and English people are understandably more loyal to The Crown than they would be to a President who almost certainly would have been backed (as a candidate) by one of the big political parties.

Republicanism endangers the ancient Union that is the UK.

Smidgey

There is no way a monarchy can prevent such imbeciles from becoming head of state either. The only difference is, we would have no way to get rid of them. The example I gave above was another George III and George IV. Monarchy can produce good heads of state and bad ones, the same is true of a republic. So this point is moot in my opinion.

I don't believe it to be very nice to tell them they are fighting for the queen either. Some may believe they are, some may not. In other republics their troops fight for the ideals of the nation, not for one man or woman. In France and America the ideals of liberty and freedom are what the troops are thought to be fighting for. Of course these countries have strayed from these ideals, but so has Britain. If the troops are really fighting for the queen then that would make the Iraq war in her name, would it not? It cannot be said that the American troops are fighting for liberty and freedom in the same way it cannot be said that the British troops are fighting in the name of the queen, unless we want to hold both liberty and monarchy responsible for the horrific killing now taking place in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Funny that you should mention this. Scotland is a far more republican nation than England is if this forum represents most English views on this matter. Furthermore, this is a perfect example of the monarchy not being able to represent the whole of the UK. I have seen rugby games where the home nations have played each other and I recall a game where England were playing against Wales with prince William and prince Harry present. Both were wearing England shirts, despite supposedly being the representatives of this whole nation and despite being the children of the Prince of Wales!

I have said it before and I am going to say it again:

"Wherever there is liberty, that is my country."

I do not intend on living in a monarchy my whole life. If the UK stays on the current path that it is, then my plan is to emigrate and attain a PhD overseas rather than at a British institution (hopefully in the U.S.A.).

Furthermore, I see no need to be loyal to a crown, it represents nothing for me. I also feel no need to be loyal to this state in its current situation. I am not a collectivist, I am an individual and there is no reason for me to show allegiance to this state which represents nothing more than a legal fiction. I will be content to show allegiance to liberty and to promote it wherever possible.

I recall in another thread you mentioned Theroux was your favourite philosopher, which is interesting, because it is his position I am taking on this (along with Lysander Spooner's).

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How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

youcanhandlethetruth

The important thing to recognize about the republic of the US, is that a lot of the constituion has been abused by the neo-cons, many of it's laws have been passed despite being unconstitutional.
So I agree with the concept of a republic, but recognize that it is open to abuse.

All you royalists out there might be interested in these articles:

The British Monarchy Has Its Roots in Nazism
Harry says sorry for Nazi costume
Touchy subject of royal links with Nazi Germany

Note the following:

The modern royal family was founded in 1840 when Queen Victoria married Albert of Saxe-Coburg, a Germany duchy, creating The House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. Such was the ill-feeling towards all things German during the First World War that in 1917 Victoria's grandson King George V - an honorary Field Marshal in the German army - thought it prudent to renounce the German name and titles and adopt that of Windsor.

It was a masterful PR exercise, replacing the Teutonic surname with that of a quintessentially home counties town.

g hall

First what makes you assume it would be one of them ?
Second British troops are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan for one T Bliar and his successor G Brown

Conjuncture and its not a particularly ancient Union but as I said before the whole is greater then the sum of the parts The UK punches above it's weight if the states were separated out then their influence would diminish quite rapidly

__________________
"That government is best which governs least."
"This is a sharp Medicine, but it is a Physician for all diseases and miseries".
"To be "matter of fact" about the world is to blunder into fantasy --and dull fantasy at that, as the real world is strange and wonderful."

Smidgey

Exactly. Imagine if it had been a Thatcher-like person as the head of state during the Blair era? Rather than the current politically neutral head of state we have, we would have had someone to limit the power of the government.

__________________
How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

rjt

And long may it continue, republicanism is a great threat to our Great Nation, long may it be fought.

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Mr Delors said that he wanted the European Parliament to be the democratic body of the community, The Commission to be The Executive and The Council Of Ministers The Senate. NO! NO! NO!
(Margaret Thatcher 30 Oct 1990)

Ignore List: The Prophets of ST Al the Unelectable.

noachian

Ahhh interesting that you posted these links which show ever so slightly links between the Royal Family and the Nazi Party.....if I remeber Adolf Hitler was A CHANCELLOR of Germany and then FRUHRER of Germany. Hmmmm and last time I checked Germany under Hitler was a whats that; a REPUBLIC. Better to live in a country with Monarchs slightly involved with Nazis rather than live in a country ran by Nazis.

(and for crying out loud who hasn't wored a Swastika at a fancy dress party)

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"A Monarchy which above all, values the Liberty of the subject." Marcus Aurelius on perfect society.

"Control thy passions, lest they take vengeance on thee." - Epictetus.

Smidgey

You mean like the king of Nepal? Or what about the Kaiser of Germany during WWI? The Russian royal family did some pretty nasty things too.

The point here is not whether republics or monarchies are more brutal, but that power and ideology corrupt.

Just out of interest, the countries at the top of the table for both social and economic freedom are both republics.

__________________
How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

noachian

Well for a stard things like that don't happen in Monarchies any more, yet still do happen in Republics.

With that a-side, actually the top ten richest countries 7 are Monarchies (the first three richest being Monarchies) and the most generous country is also a Monarchy. The top 17 most Patriotic countries or as the stat states 'Will to fight for country" 9 of which are Monarchies and 8 Republics, and 8 of those 9 Monarchies are in the top 10 with the first 3 being Monarchies. Says a little something about loyalty doesn't it . But then again you don't believe in being Loyal to your country do you.

__________________
"A Monarchy which above all, values the Liberty of the subject." Marcus Aurelius on perfect society.

"Control thy passions, lest they take vengeance on thee." - Epictetus.