Would you like to see a new, centrist, internet based, anti EU Party established?

Millennium3 · 14-08-2007, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaman

Maybe NF, and others can be bumped into joining a coalition - the impetus doesn't have to come from him...

These things start with an idea, and if we can get that idea widely spread and talked about, that will be the building block for someone to pick up the nettle - I say, just keep raising this as an option with anybody or any paper that will listen

You may be right. However, it appears to me, that the considerations we may concern ourselves with do not enter the NF mind. All of the evidence is that he is trying to build a party which appeals to the right wing of the Tory party - those he sees as most hostile to the EU. It seems that his chosen way into Westminster is for a/some disenchanted Tory MP's to join UKIP.

A policy review is currently taking place. I understand that some ex Thatcherites have been drafted in to help. I will be very surprised if the new manifesto is not aimed at directly appealing to these Tory MP's - I doubt it will be aimed at the broad electorate.

As I said previously. This strategy may achieve its end - it may even split the Tories. Either way, we will be no closer to leaving the EU, but we will have helped Labour to stay in office indefinitely.

Akria · 14-08-2007, 11:31 AM

It is no good being anti-EU unless you have a serious alternative. Going back into isolation may seem like heaven for the xenophobe, but the fact remains that isolationism cannot work in today's world.

On balance, I would say possibly. It depends on whether they have an alternative to the EU.

Akria

rjt · 14-08-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millennium3

You may be right. However, it appears to me, that the considerations we may concern ourselves with do not enter the NF mind. All of the evidence is that he is trying to build a party which appeals to the right wing of the Tory party - those he sees as most hostile to the EU. It seems that his chosen way into Westminster is for a/some disenchanted Tory MP's to join UKIP.

A policy review is currently taking place. I understand that some ex Thatcherites have been drafted in to help. I will be very surprised if the new manifesto is not aimed at directly appealing to these Tory MP's - I doubt it will be aimed at the broad electorate.

As I said previously. This strategy may achieve its end - it may even split the Tories. Either way, we will be no closer to leaving the EU, but we will have helped Labour to stay in office indefinitely.

As regards to Thatcher style policys, those are the arguments of the 1980s which have been won as seen in there acceptance by New Labour, our principle problems facing this country at the moment are social so I have to say any Thatcher style manefesto will not be aimed at the broad electorate. No offence to any Tory MP who might think of leaving for UKIP but I would say to them that after intial publicity you will sink without trace, as did the majority who left Labour for the SDP.

rjt · 14-08-2007, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akria

It is no good being anti-EU unless you have a serious alternative. Going back into isolation may seem like heaven for the xenophobe, but the fact remains that isolationism cannot work in today's world.

On balance, I would say possibly. It depends on whether they have an alternative to the EU.

Akria

Leaving the EU does not mean issolation but you are quite right to point out that any party advocating it should state clearly what alternative policys they would put in place.

But it would be a mistake just to think anyone advocating EU withdrwal is a ' little englander'

Akria · 14-08-2007, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

Leaving the EU does not mean issolation but you are quite right to point out that any party advocating it should state clearly what alternative policys they would put in place.

But it would be a mistake just to think anyone advocating EU withdrwal is a ' little englander'

I known it would be a mistake, which is why I didn't say such a thing.
However, it would need to be known beforehand what alternatives the party can offer; just leaving the EU and going into isolationism would be self-destructive.

Akria

Millennium3 · 14-08-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akria

It is no good being anti-EU unless you have a serious alternative. Going back into isolation may seem like heaven for the xenophobe, but the fact remains that isolationism cannot work in today's world.

On balance, I would say possibly. It depends on whether they have an alternative to the EU.

Akria

It's unusual having someone who supports our membership of the EU on this forum - given that it is primarily for those who would like to leave the EU. Keeping in mind we have a Commonwealth - which denotes some kind of working together for mutual benefit - even so, why is isolationism xenophobic? Surely the only measure for a government is what provides most benefit for the people. This may not include the British workforce having to compete with child labour in China.

SuperiorSteve · 14-08-2007, 11:58 AM

Well we have a good foundation using sites such as this. We could merge sites such as democracyforum.co.uk, libertarian.co.uk et al and redirect all of these sites to one main site. If we also have links on all of these sites to the main site (they would redirect anyway but links add to rank in search engines) then we could get the main site on a very high rank and get lots more hits. Presently we are all looking at hundreds of sites and trying to link to each other's sites but if we all linked to one site, or even a few sites and also to the main site, then it could only help us.

AKRIA:
Remember we have the City of London which as much the opposite of isolation as you can get outside of a Federation. We have the Commonwealth, as Milennium stated, plus we have NATO, the UN, we would be part of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), we are part of NAFTA and we have troops on peacekeeping duties with the UN Peacekeeping Force. How on Earth would we be isolated? The UK will never be isolated, we are connected to too many people and Countries for this to happen. Look around you, we have Chinese and Indian takeaways everywhere, we have Asian food shops, we import products from around the world, we also export to the rest of the world. Isolation couldn't happen to the UK. Traitors always try to say we'd be isolated outside of the European Union, they are liars, as many criminals are. Many of us have 'foreign' ancestors, my Grandfather is Irish. Like the USA, we are all interdependent with other Countries.

Akria · 14-08-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millennium3

It's unusual having someone who supports our membership of the EU on this forum - given that it is primarily for those who would like to leave the EU. Keeping in mind we have a Commonwealth - which denotes some kind of working together for mutual benefit - even so, why is isolationism xenophobic? Surely the only measure for a government is what provides most benefit for the people. This may not include the British workforce having to compete with child labour in China.

You know from different sources that I do not support EU membership for Britain in its current state. The EU is rife with undemocratic processes and has the possibility of destroying our national identity.
However, the idea of closer European integration is a good one. We live in such an interonnected world that isolationism, particularly when we are talking of such an economically powerful nation as Britain, would cause the entire world to tremble.
And the British workforce competing with child labour can be stopped by taking measures towards ending child labour, a worthy goal in itself.

The Commonwealth is not a closely linked trading or political organisation; it remains a friendly community, often sympathetic towards Britain, but it is not quite ready to be a replacement for the EU which, even despite its many negative aspects, has done more to streamline trade and economic co-operation than many organisations have ever done.

Akria

Millennium3 · 14-08-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperiorSteve

Well we have a good foundation using sites such as this. We could merge sites such as democracyforum.co.uk, libertarian.co.uk et al and redirect all of these sites to one main site. If we also have links on all of these sites to the main site (they would redirect anyway but links add to rank in search engines) then we could get the main site on a very high rank and get lots more hits. Presently we are all looking at hundreds of sites and trying to link to each other's sites but if we all linked to one site, or even a few sites and also to the main site, then it could only help us.

Sounds like a good idea - but I think this belongs on a different thread.

SuperiorSteve · 14-08-2007, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Millennium3

Sounds like a good idea - but I think this belongs on a different thread.

No, it belongs here. An internet based party is relevant to websites (how would you promote it otherwise?), and if we merged all the different sites we have then we could make it THE source of pro-freedom information.

Definitely belongs on this thread.

View Poll Results: Would you like to see a new, centrist, internet based, anti EU Party established?
Yes	11	37.93%
Probably	2	6.90%
Possibly	3	10.34%
No	13	44.83%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

14-08-2007, 11:31 AM	#42 (permalink)
Akria Uber Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Grimsby, NELincs Posts: 2,477 Party: None	It is no good being anti-EU unless you have a serious alternative. Going back into isolation may seem like heaven for the xenophobe, but the fact remains that isolationism cannot work in today's world. On balance, I would say possibly. It depends on whether they have an alternative to the EU. Akria __________________ I am getting very tired of people not reading my posts properly. Please do not reply to me unless you are sure you have not missed out the key points I am making and key words I am using. http://real-democracy.co.uk \| Admin and proud The commonality of mankind: If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?

14-08-2007, 11:58 AM	#47 (permalink)
SuperiorSteve Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Southampton Posts: 693	Well we have a good foundation using sites such as this. We could merge sites such as democracyforum.co.uk, libertarian.co.uk et al and redirect all of these sites to one main site. If we also have links on all of these sites to the main site (they would redirect anyway but links add to rank in search engines) then we could get the main site on a very high rank and get lots more hits. Presently we are all looking at hundreds of sites and trying to link to each other's sites but if we all linked to one site, or even a few sites and also to the main site, then it could only help us. AKRIA: Remember we have the City of London which as much the opposite of isolation as you can get outside of a Federation. We have the Commonwealth, as Milennium stated, plus we have NATO, the UN, we would be part of the European Free Trade Association (EFTA), we are part of NAFTA and we have troops on peacekeeping duties with the UN Peacekeeping Force. How on Earth would we be isolated? The UK will never be isolated, we are connected to too many people and Countries for this to happen. Look around you, we have Chinese and Indian takeaways everywhere, we have Asian food shops, we import products from around the world, we also export to the rest of the world. Isolation couldn't happen to the UK. Traitors always try to say we'd be isolated outside of the European Union, they are liars, as many criminals are. Many of us have 'foreign' ancestors, my Grandfather is Irish. Like the USA, we are all interdependent with other Countries. __________________ "Remember that you are an Englishman, and have consequently won first prize in the lottery of life" Cecil Rhodes Last edited by SuperiorSteve; 14-08-2007 at 12:06 PM.

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