Millennium3

Yes these are good suggestions, but the leader of UKIP is pivotal. NF has given no indication of being prepared to move in this direction because his purpose is to force the Tories to become anti EU not to build a new anti EU force. Try your suggestion out on him - if you have an opportunity.

The ED's have a good record of amalgamating, I am sure they would be willing to join with UKIP if a common manifesto could be agreed.

tito

This is the only way to get anywhere. UKIP will never compete against the "tribal" tory voters.

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Millennium3

The problem with NF's strategy is that it is stunting the growth of an anti EU movement. At best NF will succeed in spliting the Tory Party which should ensure that Labour stays in office for another decade.

I do not believe NF will change direction, this creates a problem for those who want to help build an anti EU movement. Presently the only alternative to UKIP is the ED's, but they are prepared to sacrifice the Union in the process.
Where do you go if you don't want to be part of a Tory pressure group and you wish to retain the Union? Hence the thread title.

TonyG

There is no other logical option.
How about a nice cup of Polonium tea for NF?
My own feeling about him is that he is far too comfortable and completely unmotivated. He doesn't have anything that tests him, he's just, seemingly, along for a very nice ride and if that comes to an end next year then, what the hell. He'll have an EU pension and a job in the media waiting for him... he might even get his own chat show.

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rjt

The central problem the anti EU movement faces is not the need for a New Party but the fact that in General Election campains Europe does not feature as an Election issue, except where a party is split as to what to do e.g 1997 with the Torys and then it is simply a matter of it being used as a device to show that party is weak and not capable of governing the country, perfectly true in the Torys case in 1997.

Social and Economic issues dominate domestic Election campains, partys must have policys which are seen as moderate and sensiable in these areas if they aspire to do well.

As regards the EU whilst nearly everybody on this forum wishes to see us withdraw I would say that issue is closed at the moment, the focus should be on securing a referendum on the constitution and unplatable this may be this will mean for partys like UKIP, the Ed and any other non racist partys desiring withdrwal being on the same side as Mr Cameron and the Tory party for that campain.

Millennium3

I don't think I can be so harsh. I believe his heart belongs to Maggie, he was young and impressionable when Maggie came to power and I suspect did very well, financially, from her reign. He wants to recreate a Maggie administration, however, she came to power because everyone was fed up with Union Power and she offered a solution - and it worked. The circumstances now are quite the reverse. Labour have abandoned labour and those that the Unions once protected are the worst affected by the influx of cheap and willing economic migrants from Eastern Europe. In fact the conditions could not be more different - we seem to be heading back to the Dickensian era which spawned the Labour Party in the first place.

Millennium3

I maintain that NF's strategy, for UKIP, is it's greatest downfall although can agree generally with much of what you say. I am sure that the reason Europe is so low on the public's agenda is because the single issue which would bring it rapidly up the agenda, immigration, has been backed off by, particularly, UKIP. The governments immigration policy is the single issue for which the majority see the disastrous effects daily, if not hourly. This can be tackled from a non racist stance and must be if the anti EU movement is to succeed - it is the only EU generated problem which is clearly obvious and has such impact.

I thoroughly agree with your final paragraph which reminded me of the J K Galbraith quote:

Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable.

Britannist

I can think of a few others.

Millennium3

The nettle has to be grasped to give any chance of success.

spaman

Maybe NF, and others can be bumped into joining a coalition - the impetus doesn't have to come from him...

These things start with an idea, and if we can get that idea widely spread and talked about, that will be the building block for someone to pick up the nettle - I say, just keep raising this as an option with anybody or any paper that will listen

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