perspective as regards death

rjt · 08-02-2007, 11:04 AM

There does not seem to be a week go by when we dont hear about British and American soliders dying in a tragic and uneccesary war in Iraq.

Every week people seem to by meeting a grisley end on our streets at the hands of a fellow man driven for some unexplainable reason to comitt a wicked act.

But what we dont read about in the papers are the babies that lose their life in abortions ever week, arround 500

Abortion has effectively become another form of contreception at times and it is about time christians and indeed non christians who feel stongly about it get together to campain hard for a change in the law.

Internationalist · 08-02-2007, 11:09 AM

I read somewhere (no link, sorry) that there are more abortions than live births in Russia. Now that really is sick.

I gather that the government in Russia has been trying to get abortion rates down and birth rates up but I don't know whether they will have any success in the long run.

g hall · 08-02-2007, 12:07 PM

As regards abortion it is up to an individual, before legalised abortion many women were injured or died do you want to go back to that?

If you read Freakonomics there is a statistical correlation between the legalisation of abortion and a drop in crime in USA

Perhaps the upper limit should brought down from 24 weeks BUT medical staff should recommend and perform abortion without imposing their beliefs on the recipient - otherwise they shouldn't do it.

If a woman is using abortion as a method of contraception perhaps refusal can be sanctioned but I argue that it should be available and should be on the NHS

Feldoon · 08-02-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

But what we dont read about in the papers are the babies that lose their life in abortions ever week, arround 500

Those were foeti, not babies.

Infanticide =/= Abortion.

Quote:

Abortion has effectively become another form of contreception at times and it is about time christians and indeed non christians who feel stongly about it get together to campain hard for a change in the law.

Oh how very libertarian of you.

By that, you are saying you wish the state to be in control of a woman's uterus.

rjt · 08-02-2007, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g hall

As regards abortion it is up to an individual, before legalised abortion many women were injured or died do you want to go back to that?

If you read Freakonomics there is a statistical correlation between the legalisation of abortion and a drop in crime in USA

Perhaps the upper limit should brought down from 24 weeks BUT medical staff should recommend and perform abortion without imposing their beliefs on the recipient - otherwise they shouldn't do it.

If a woman is using abortion as a method of contraception perhaps refusal can be sanctioned but I argue that it should be available and should be on the NHS

As a christian I beleive all human life is sacred and Gods to give and take away.

Westcountryman · 08-02-2007, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feldoon

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

But what we dont read about in the papers are the babies that lose their life in abortions ever week, arround 500

Those were foeti, not babies.

Infanticide =/= Abortion.

Quote:

Abortion has effectively become another form of contreception at times and it is about time christians and indeed non christians who feel stongly about it get together to campain hard for a change in the law.

Oh how very libertarian of you.

By that, you are saying you wish the state to be in control of a woman's uterus.

Abortion effectively elevates the rights of one human being over another, so it is right that there should be very tight controls on its use.

Feldoon · 08-02-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernUKIP

Abortion effectively elevates the rights of one human being over another

The existent, full human over the non-existent foetus of a human.

Quote:

so it is right that there should be very tight controls on its use.

But, again, by saying that you are saying that a woman's womb is property of or in the control of the state.

Ripping the "free" from "freedom".

Westcountryman · 08-02-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feldoon

Quote:

Originally Posted by ModernUKIP

Abortion effectively elevates the rights of one human being over another

The existent, full human over the non-existent foetus of a human.

Quote:

so it is right that there should be very tight controls on its use.

But, again, by saying that you are saying that a woman's womb is property of or in the control of the state.

Ripping the "free" from "freedom".

No, the woman has full control over her uterus. What the government would in fact have control over is the procedure of abortion, NOT a woman's uterus.

Feldoon · 08-02-2007, 02:16 PM

The procedure of abortion being that which enables the woman to do as she wishes with her uterus.

Outlawing abortion or having it very tightly controlled is pretty much akin to state control of a woman's uterus.

Then it'll be back into the alleys with a coat hanger.

Westcountryman · 08-02-2007, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feldoon

The procedure of abortion being that which enables the woman to do as she wishes with her uterus.

Outlawing abortion or having it very tightly controlled is pretty much akin to state control of a woman's uterus.

No it's not, it's control of the procedure. That is subsequently may affect a woman's 'choice' is a mere secondary factor. If the woman doesn't want a baby, she either abstains or takes the risk of engaging in sexual intercourse using contraception. If she then ends up pregnant, that's her fault. Whatever happened to taking responsibility for your actions?

Abortion should always be a last resort and should always have strict limits on its use.

08-02-2007, 11:04 AM	#1 (permalink)
rjt Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Aldershot Posts: 5,479	perspective as regards death There does not seem to be a week go by when we dont hear about British and American soliders dying in a tragic and uneccesary war in Iraq. Every week people seem to by meeting a grisley end on our streets at the hands of a fellow man driven for some unexplainable reason to comitt a wicked act. But what we dont read about in the papers are the babies that lose their life in abortions ever week, arround 500 Abortion has effectively become another form of contreception at times and it is about time christians and indeed non christians who feel stongly about it get together to campain hard for a change in the law.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

08-02-2007, 11:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Internationalist Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,101	I read somewhere (no link, sorry) that there are more abortions than live births in Russia. Now that really is sick. I gather that the government in Russia has been trying to get abortion rates down and birth rates up but I don't know whether they will have any success in the long run.

08-02-2007, 12:07 PM	#3 (permalink)
g hall Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: erewhon Posts: 5,614	As regards abortion it is up to an individual, before legalised abortion many women were injured or died do you want to go back to that? If you read Freakonomics there is a statistical correlation between the legalisation of abortion and a drop in crime in USA Perhaps the upper limit should brought down from 24 weeks BUT medical staff should recommend and perform abortion without imposing their beliefs on the recipient - otherwise they shouldn't do it. If a woman is using abortion as a method of contraception perhaps refusal can be sanctioned but I argue that it should be available and should be on the NHS

08-02-2007, 02:16 PM	#9 (permalink)
Feldoon Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,003	The procedure of abortion being that which enables the woman to do as she wishes with her uterus. Outlawing abortion or having it very tightly controlled is pretty much akin to state control of a woman's uterus. Then it'll be back into the alleys with a coat hanger.