Should UKIP bring back Section 28?

Phagocyte · 04-02-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

I'm surprised you should assume anything else.

Well, I'm certainly not going to make negative assumptions about the fundamental nature of a portion of the population until I see sufficient reason to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

I have personally known four men who were jailed for paedophile offences - all against boys. I should think that's the general experience/expectation of normal people.

This indicates that some men sexually abuse boys.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

Here's just one of a host of learned articles on the subject

Quote:

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=IS02E3

Timothy J. Dailey, Ph. D.

However, despite efforts by homosexual activists to distance the gay lifestyle from pedophilia, there remains a disturbing connection between the two. This is because, by definition, male homosexuals are sexually attracted to other males. While many homosexuals may not seek young sexual partners, the evidence indicates that disproportionate numbers of gay men seek adolescent males or boys as sexual partners. In this paper we will consider the following evidence linking homosexuality to pedophilia:

· Pedophiles are invariably males: Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men.

· Significant numbers of victims are males: Up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys (as opposed to girls).

· The 10 percent fallacy: Studies indicate that, contrary to the inaccurate but widely accepted claims of sex researcher Alfred Kinsey, homosexuals comprise between 1 to 3 percent of the population.

· Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.

· Some homosexual activists defend the historic connection between homosexuality and pedophilia: Such activists consider the defense of "boy-lovers" to be a legitimate gay rights issue.

· Pedophile themes abound in homosexual literary culture: Gay fiction as well as serious academic treatises promote "intergenerational intimacy."

MALE HOMOSEXUALS COMMIT A DISPROPORTIONATE NUMBER OF CHILD SEX ABUSE CASES
Homosexual apologists admit that some homosexuals sexually molest children, but they deny that homosexuals are more likely to commit such offenses. After all, they argue, the majority of child molestation cases are heterosexual in nature. While this is correct in terms of absolute numbers, this argument ignores the fact that homosexuals comprise only a very small percentage of the population.

The evidence indicates that homosexual men molest boys at rates grossly disproportionate to the rates at which heterosexual men molest girls. To demonstrate this it is necessary to connect several statistics related to the problem of child sex abuse: 1) men are almost always the perpetrator; 2) up to one-third or more of child sex abuse cases are committed against boys; 3) less than three percent of the population are homosexuals. Thus, a tiny percentage of the population (homosexual men), commit one-third or more of the cases of child sexual molestation.

Men Account for Almost All Sexual Abuse of Children Cases

The Family Research Council is not an authority on anything.
And Dr. Dailey is not qualified to speak from an expert position on anything other than theology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRC

Dr. Dailey received his bachelors' degree in Bible and Theology from Moody Bible Institute, his M.A. in Theological Studies at Wheaton College, and his Ph.D. in Religion from Marquette University. In addition, Dr. Dailey has completed graduate study at the University of Wisconsin; Milwaukee; Jerusalem University College; Jerusalem; and Hebrew University; Jerusalem.

I certainly would not call this a "learned" article.

Phagocyte · 04-02-2007, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

And again...

Quote:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=1556756

1: J Sex Marital Ther. 1992 Spring;18(1):34-43. Links
The proportions of heterosexual and homosexual pedophiles among sex offenders against children: an exploratory study.Freund K, Watson RJ.
Department of Behavioural Sexology, Clarke Institute of Psychiatry, Toronto, Ont., Canada.

Previous investigations have indicated that the ratio of sex offenders against female children vs. offenders against male children is approximately 2:1, while the ratio of gynephiles to androphiles among the general population is approximately 20:1. The present study investigated whether the etiology of preferred partner sex among pedophiles is related to the etiology of preferred partner sex among males preferring adult partners. Using phallometric test sensitivities to calculate the proportion of true pedophiles among various groups of sex offenders against children, and taking into consideration previously reported mean numbers of victims per offender group, the ratio of heterosexual to homosexual pedophiles was calculated to be approximately 11:1. This suggests that the resulting proportion of true pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually. This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males have a greater propensity to offend against children.

PMID: 1556756 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Not telling us anything we didn't know already, really.

<<yawn...>>

Nor much of anything at all, come to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray Blanchard

I would be remiss if I did not exploit this opportunity to publicly correct oft-misquoted research on which I collaborated with Dr. Freund. In 1989, we (along with Doug Rienzo) published "Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, and Erotic Age Preference" (The Journal of Sex Research, 26, 107-117) and, in 1992, we published "The Proportions of Heterosexual and Homosexual Pedophiles Among Sex Offenders Against Children" (Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, 18, 34-43). These articles have frequently been cited by fundamentalist lobbyists as proof-positive that homosexuals are more inclined to molest children. This was not a finding of our research, period. What we found was that, among men with a sexual preference for children, there was an over-representation of men with a same-sex preference. To reiterate, among men with a sexual preference for children, as diagnosed using Dr. Freund's phallometric test, there was a higher relative incidence of homosexuality. In all other research we conducted, we never found that androphilic (i.e., a preference for male adults) men had any greater relative erotic interest in children than did their gynephilic (i.e., a preference for female adults) peers. Dr. Freund was and would continue to be greatly distressed that any of his research would contribute to the persecution of any group of people.

(Source)

Mikeuk · 04-02-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phagocyte

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

I have personally known four men who were jailed for paedophile offences - all against boys. I should think that's the general experience/expectation of normal people.

This indicates that some men sexually abuse boys.

Well since homos make up at most 5% of the population I think its significent that all four paedophiles I personally knew were homosexual.

I don't personally know any heterosexual similarly jailed, although a teacher at my wife's school was.

Based on my experiences I'm not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Why would homosexuals wish to adopt children, anyway?

Mikeuk · 04-02-2007, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phagocyte

What we found was that, among men with a sexual preference for children, there was an over-representation of men with a same-sex preference. To reiterate, among men with a sexual preference for children, as diagnosed using Dr. Freund's phallometric test, there was a higher relative incidence of homosexuality.

Putting the cart before the horse, either to avoid political persecution or because the researcher's left-wing prejudices conflict with his findings.

I've lately notices this dishonest attempt by the gay lobby to make out that paedophiles must for some reason be considered in isolation from homosexuals (and heterosexuals as well - that's decent of them).

I don't buy it.

Phagocyte · 04-02-2007, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phagocyte

What we found was that, among men with a sexual preference for children, there was an over-representation of men with a same-sex preference. To reiterate, among men with a sexual preference for children, as diagnosed using Dr. Freund's phallometric test, there was a higher relative incidence of homosexuality.

Putting the cart before the horse, either to avoid political persecution or because the researcher's left-wing prejudices conflict with his findings.

I've lately notices this dishonest attempt by the gay lobby to make out that paedophiles must for some reason be considered in isolation from homosexuals (and heterosexuals as well - that's decent of them).

I don't buy it.

You're seriously accusing the researcher of intentional bias? Please support this.

Paedophilia is not the same creature as heterosexuality or homosexuality. I am not a pedophile and I am heterosexual. Similarly, there are homosexuals who are not pedophiles. There are also people of either orientation who are pedophiles. I don't see what's so dishonest about considering separate categories separately. Please explain.

Phagocyte · 04-02-2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phagocyte

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

I have personally known four men who were jailed for paedophile offences - all against boys. I should think that's the general experience/expectation of normal people.

This indicates that some men sexually abuse boys.

Well since homos make up at most 5% of the population

I've heard higher estimates. Source please?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

I think its significent that all four paedophiles I personally knew were homosexual.

And I do not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

I don't personally know any heterosexual similarly jailed, although a teacher at my wife's school was.

Personal experience aside, there are people of both orientations who are and have been.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

Based on my experiences I'm not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.

That's fine, but in a debate such as this I must insist on backing beyond the circumstantial and inconclusive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

Why would homosexuals wish to adopt children, anyway?

Likely for similar reasons as heterosexuals, whatever those may be.

mkpdavies · 04-02-2007, 04:26 PM

Gary Glitter likes little girls, Johnathan King likes little boys.

You have to protect kids from these people. It may well be the way they are programmed, but that doesn't alter anything in practicle terms. Hopefully they will be able to wipe out the paedo gene one day.

I wonder how many gay people (or hetro for that matter), would choose to have their gene changed if that's all it took!

Phagocyte · 04-02-2007, 08:28 PM

Probably quite a few. I'd imagine that more than a handful of people would be gladly rid of an attraction they could never legally act upon. Unfortunately, this sort of alteration would carry a huge potential for misuse as well.

Mikeuk · 05-02-2007, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phagocyte

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phagocyte

What we found was that, among men with a sexual preference for children, there was an over-representation of men with a same-sex preference. To reiterate, among men with a sexual preference for children, as diagnosed using Dr. Freund's phallometric test, there was a higher relative incidence of homosexuality.

Putting the cart before the horse, either to avoid political persecution or because the researcher's left-wing prejudices conflict with his findings.

I've lately notices this dishonest attempt by the gay lobby to make out that paedophiles must for some reason be considered in isolation from homosexuals (and heterosexuals as well - that's decent of them).

I don't buy it.

You're seriously accusing the researcher of intentional bias? Please support this.

Paedophilia is not the same creature as heterosexuality or homosexuality. I am not a pedophile and I am heterosexual. Similarly, there are homosexuals who are not pedophiles. There are also people of either orientation who are pedophiles. I don't see what's so dishonest about considering separate categories separately. Please explain.

It's quite simple.

Some heterosexuals are paedophiles

Some homosexuals are paedophiles

In US jails the split between offenders was found to be about 50/50

But the split between heterosexuals and homosexuals within the overall population is not 50/50. It's probably about 95/5 but rather than argue about that let's take the figure favoured by gay activists of 90/10.

I'll let you do the rest of the arithmetic yourself... :twisted:

Feldoon · 05-02-2007, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phagocyte

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeuk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phagocyte

What we found was that, among men with a sexual preference for children, there was an over-representation of men with a same-sex preference. To reiterate, among men with a sexual preference for children, as diagnosed using Dr. Freund's phallometric test, there was a higher relative incidence of homosexuality.

Putting the cart before the horse, either to avoid political persecution or because the researcher's left-wing prejudices conflict with his findings.

I've lately notices this dishonest attempt by the gay lobby to make out that paedophiles must for some reason be considered in isolation from homosexuals (and heterosexuals as well - that's decent of them).

I don't buy it.

You're seriously accusing the researcher of intentional bias? Please support this.

Paedophilia is not the same creature as heterosexuality or homosexuality. I am not a pedophile and I am heterosexual. Similarly, there are homosexuals who are not pedophiles. There are also people of either orientation who are pedophiles. I don't see what's so dishonest about considering separate categories separately. Please explain.

It's quite simple.

Some heterosexuals are paedophiles

Some homosexuals are paedophiles

In US jails the split between offenders was found to be about 50/50

But the split between heterosexuals and homosexuals within the overall population is not 50/50. It's probably about 95/5 but rather than argue about that let's take the figure favoured by gay activists of 90/10.

I'll let you do the rest of the arithmetic yourself... :twisted:

Is it now I remind you that correlation doesn't equal causation or is it later?

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04-02-2007, 04:26 PM	#67 (permalink)
mkpdavies Uber Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Woking Posts: 31,112 Party: Libertarian Party	Gary Glitter likes little girls, Johnathan King likes little boys. You have to protect kids from these people. It may well be the way they are programmed, but that doesn't alter anything in practicle terms. Hopefully they will be able to wipe out the paedo gene one day. I wonder how many gay people (or hetro for that matter), would choose to have their gene changed if that's all it took! __________________ http://brits4ronpaul.blogspot.com/ http://wokinglibertarians.blogspot.com/ http://lpuk.org My ignore list Labour, Blue Labour, Lib Dems

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04-02-2007, 08:28 PM	#68 (permalink)
Phagocyte Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 179	Probably quite a few. I'd imagine that more than a handful of people would be gladly rid of an attraction they could never legally act upon. Unfortunately, this sort of alteration would carry a huge potential for misuse as well.