Would you vote Tory for a referendum on EU membership?

eublues · 18-01-2007, 10:41 PM

Hard to think of anything worse or more difficult to shake off than the regime the EU superstate people have built by stealth.

With a straightforward coup you'd know exactly who the enemy is.

The EU has its people from Brussels to the town hall, to the media, to 'big business', 'the arts', etc.

Some of these people are influential, greedy big-shots, but many are just unthinking petty bureaucrats and pen-pushers who can sip a little from the gravy train.

Collectively the effect is devastating.

Independent UKIP · 19-01-2007, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Would any of you have voted for Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock to get Britain out of the EU/EEC as it was then?

Quote:

Yes.

Quote:

If Michael Foot had won in 1983 we would probably would be living under a Right Wing dictatorship by now as the millitary would have tolerated him for long.

Quote:

Hard to think of anything worse or more difficult to shake off than the regime the EU superstate people have built by stealth. With a straightforward coup you'd know exactly who the enemy is.
The EU has its people from Brussels to the town hall, to the media, to 'big business', 'the arts', etc. Some of these people are influential, greedy big-shots, but many are just unthinking petty bureaucrats and pen-pushers who can sip a little from the gravy train. Collectively the effect is devastating.

A very good question if genuinely asked, This-England. However I suspect you wanted to respond to the question more than ask it. In 1983 the threat to the Nation was rightly seen as being from the Soviet bloc and also the unions which were severely infilitrated by trotskyites as well as pro-Soviets (thus the genuine interest of the members such as keeping them in work were broadly irrelevant to many union leaders). The EC had very limited powers at that time. The Single European Act did not exist. The Factortame case which was the first time a UK Act of Parliament was ruled unlawful had not occurred.

I therefore disagree with eublues about saying yes to that loaded question. Loaded & partially false, because Neil Kinnock in 1992 did not state it was Labour policy to withdraw from the EC.

Regarding what would've happened if Foot had won in 1983 I think the book and/or dvd 'A Very British Coup' by former Blair regime minister Chris Mullin is worth consulting & treating very seriously indeed. I do not believe Foot would have ever shut down parliament, abolished democracy or established gulags. If our Armed Forces had been obliged to save the Nation in the 1980s we in 2007 would have well moved on.

I don't have such confidence when it comes to the Commission & that is where I return to agreeing with eublues.

kernow · 19-01-2007, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christina

I voted 'No' because the Tory Party can only be trusted to break promises.

Same,Same!

Feldoon · 19-01-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkpdavies

Well, in that fantasy world that will never happen, I probably would.

Is this also the world where our elected officials barely have one jag and actually serve a purpose?

Yeah - If the Tory party had made a I'll-die-before-I-break-my-word plans for it, I'd look their way.

They won't. I won't.

Probably be little more than a "Look our way, please!"

This-England · 19-01-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent UKIP

Quote:

Would any of you have voted for Michael Foot or Neil Kinnock to get Britain out of the EU/EEC as it was then?

Quote:

Yes.

Quote:

If Michael Foot had won in 1983 we would probably would be living under a Right Wing dictatorship by now as the millitary would have tolerated him for long.

Quote:

Hard to think of anything worse or more difficult to shake off than the regime the EU superstate people have built by stealth. With a straightforward coup you'd know exactly who the enemy is.
The EU has its people from Brussels to the town hall, to the media, to 'big business', 'the arts', etc. Some of these people are influential, greedy big-shots, but many are just unthinking petty bureaucrats and pen-pushers who can sip a little from the gravy train. Collectively the effect is devastating.

A very good question if genuinely asked, This-England. However I suspect you wanted to respond to the question more than ask it. In 1983 the threat to the Nation was rightly seen as being from the Soviet bloc and also the unions which were severely infilitrated by trotskyites as well as pro-Soviets (thus the genuine interest of the members such as keeping them in work were broadly irrelevant to many union leaders). The EC had very limited powers at that time. The Single European Act did not exist. The Factortame case which was the first time a UK Act of Parliament was ruled unlawful had not occurred.

I therefore disagree with eublues about saying yes to that loaded question. Loaded & partially false, because Neil Kinnock in 1992 did not state it was Labour policy to withdraw from the EC.

Regarding what would've happened if Foot had won in 1983 I think the book and/or dvd 'A Very British Coup' by former Blair regime minister Chris Mullin is worth consulting & treating very seriously indeed. I do not believe Foot would have ever shut down parliament, abolished democracy or established gulags. If our Armed Forces had been obliged to save the Nation in the 1980s we in 2007 would have well moved on.

I don't have such confidence when it comes to the Commission & that is where I return to agreeing with eublues.

Kinnock wanted EEC withdrawl in his 1987 manifesto.

Independent UKIP · 19-01-2007, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by This-England

Kinnock wanted EEC withdrawl in his 1987 manifesto.

I won't crow because to be fair I wasn't certain about that when I made my post & thus did not mention 1987. But you are wrong on that as on so many other things.

http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manif...anifesto.shtml

Quote:

Labour's aim is to work constructively with our EEC partners to promote economic expansion and combat unemployment. However, we will stand up for British interests within the European Community and will seek to put an end to the abuses and scandals of the Common Agricultural Policy. We shall, like other member countries, reject EEC interference with our policy for national recovery and renewal.

Totten · 19-01-2007, 10:07 PM

lol that is very true!

This-England · 19-01-2007, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Independent UKIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by This-England

Kinnock wanted EEC withdrawl in his 1987 manifesto.

I won't crow because to be fair I wasn't certain about that when I made my post & thus did not mention 1987. But you are wrong on that as on so many other things.

http://www.labour-party.org.uk/manif...anifesto.shtml

Quote:

Labour's aim is to work constructively with our EEC partners to promote economic expansion and combat unemployment. However, we will stand up for British interests within the European Community and will seek to put an end to the abuses and scandals of the Common Agricultural Policy. We shall, like other member countries, reject EEC interference with our policy for national recovery and renewal.

Must have got it confused with the 1983 manifesto.
I read them all just this week.

From the 1983 manifesto -

"We will also open immediate negotiations with our EEC partners, and introduce the necessary legislation, to prepare for Britain's withdrawal from the EEC, to be completed well within the lifetime of the Labour government."

This-England · 19-01-2007, 10:28 PM

Was just yesterday too that I posted the 1987 Labour party manifesto on this site.
Under the Labour party section.

SGK · 19-01-2007, 10:32 PM

I voted no. It needs more than a referendum, it needs a party fully committed to withdrawal in order to put the argument and make it an open and fair vote.
A referendum with all three parties pro, even with one 'a bit anti' could be worse than no referendum.

View Poll Results: Would you vote Tory for a referendum on EU membership?
Yes	21	44.68%
No	23	48.94%
Not sure	3	6.38%
Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

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18-01-2007, 10:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
eublues Uber Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 2,967	Hard to think of anything worse or more difficult to shake off than the regime the EU superstate people have built by stealth. With a straightforward coup you'd know exactly who the enemy is. The EU has its people from Brussels to the town hall, to the media, to 'big business', 'the arts', etc. Some of these people are influential, greedy big-shots, but many are just unthinking petty bureaucrats and pen-pushers who can sip a little from the gravy train. Collectively the effect is devastating.

19-01-2007, 10:07 PM	#17 (permalink)
Totten Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Oxford Posts: 18	lol that is very true!

19-01-2007, 10:28 PM	#19 (permalink)
This-England Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,682	Was just yesterday too that I posted the 1987 Labour party manifesto on this site. Under the Labour party section.

19-01-2007, 10:32 PM	#20 (permalink)
SGK Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,237	I voted no. It needs more than a referendum, it needs a party fully committed to withdrawal in order to put the argument and make it an open and fair vote. A referendum with all three parties pro, even with one 'a bit anti' could be worse than no referendum.