tito

Churchill allowed conscription.
Powell was a nationalist

__________________
For life, Liberty and Prosperity
http://lpuk.org/

Westcountryman

Given the circumstances I think we can let him off. I'm starting to come to the opinion that Libertarians are either overly selfish or just wimps!

__________________
Manus haec inimica tyrannis ense petit placidam sub libertate quietam - "This hand of mine, which is hostile to tyrants, seeks by the sword quiet peace under liberty."

tito

Wimps? Selfish?

__________________
For life, Liberty and Prosperity
http://lpuk.org/

Hartlepool

Selfish libertarian wimps?

noachian

Personally I see no wrong in Conscription in a time like that of WWII, and Powell was a Nationalist also for good reason, immigration was very high and many Britons were getting uncomfortable with the amount of NCI's (New Commonwealth Immigrants) entering the country. Like many things, Nationalism is a 'two-way' movement; it has it's possitives and negatives (most often used in a negative manor)

Possitive Nationalism: The desire for national advancement or independence. Excessive patriotism. Devotion and loyalty to one's own nation.

Negative Nationalism (or just Nationalism): Enthusiasm for military glory. Chauvinism. Zealous and aggressive patriotism.

Nationalism like many things has been coined by the media as an extremely bad thing. The actual use of Nationalism is what determins it to be right or wrong, not Nationalism itself. I see your point though Tito

__________________
Consummerism will make corpses of us all!!

"A Monarchy which above all, values the Liberty of the subject." Marcus Aurelius on perfect society.

"Control thy passions, lest they take vengeance on thee." - Epictetus.

tito

Well I do, and as a libertarian I don't believe your opinion can form a decision for anybody else. I would likely volunteer though.

i see yours too, I don't dislike nationalism in the "Eeeeevvviiillll racist" sense. I dislike it because it is another form of collectivism. Feel pride to a tune, flag or stretch of land if you must, but allow others to do as they please, and don't expect them to pay for it.

__________________
For life, Liberty and Prosperity
http://lpuk.org/

noachian

Indeed, I'd volunteer to probably.


A very good point.

__________________
Consummerism will make corpses of us all!!

"A Monarchy which above all, values the Liberty of the subject." Marcus Aurelius on perfect society.

"Control thy passions, lest they take vengeance on thee." - Epictetus.

Smidgey

I don't think the ends justify the means.

I personally would not volunteer - I believe killing is wrong and I don't think I could bring myself to do it. However, in such a time as the Second World War, a volunteer army would be acceptable by libertarian standards and I have no doubt that thousands of libertarians would be willing to fight to protect their liberty. Although, having said that, if the UK had adopted a libertarian approach in the first place the Second World War may never have occurred. A position of strategic neutrality might have caused the end of the First World War to be much more productive for the victors and the losers (since the Second World War was a direct cause from the first).

One more point, however, why is it 'wimpy' to stand up for ones beliefs? If you think it is immoral to kill (as I do) does it make one a wimp to decide not to kill? I saw a good bumper sticker: "Pro war and pro life? Make up your mind!"

__________________
How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

Smidgey

I find it interesting how the 'two way movement' in libertarian politics is not a bad one. Whether you are a moral libertarian (Rand, Nozick) or a utilitarian libertarian (Hayek, Friedman), the result is still the same. I don't really know of a bad libertarian political philosophy.

__________________
How vain is man, who boasts in fight the valour of gigantic might!

-Georg Friedrich Händel

noachian

Prehaps Libertarianism is not a 'two-way' movement like Nationalism as in determining what makes it right or wrong, but Libertarianism a 'two-way movement' because it has a compass, two oppisate ends. If you see what I mean.

Nationalism a two-way thing because it can be coined good or bad depending on how it is used. Whereas Libertarianism is a two-way thing not because it can be good or bad but because it has two opposing ideals, but are both good. Get me?

__________________
Consummerism will make corpses of us all!!

"A Monarchy which above all, values the Liberty of the subject." Marcus Aurelius on perfect society.

"Control thy passions, lest they take vengeance on thee." - Epictetus.