Who Was The Greatest British Conservative Politician?

rjt · 02-12-2007, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

I'm not sure if the words 'Conservative' and 'great' can appear in the same sentence unless the word 'not' is also included.

The liberty and freedom of speach and of ownership you enjoy today are down to Conservative policys you reamrks are in my view somewhat ungratfull, Margaret thatcher for instance had her faults but our economy would be in a near third world state if it was not for her.

Smidgey · 02-12-2007, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

The liberty and freedom of speach and of ownership you enjoy today are down to Conservative policys you reamrks are in my view somewhat ungratfull, Margaret thatcher for instance had her faults but our economy would be in a near third world state if it was not for her.

This is indeed true, but she was hardly the champion of freedom. She is reported to have read Hayek and Friedman was one of her advisors. If only she had accepted all of their views rather than the ones that gave her some political expediency.

rjt · 02-12-2007, 07:59 PM

No PM will give you everything you want, political leaders represent partys which are broad churches designed quite understandable to appeal to a broad cross section of the public. Mrs thatcher won Elections because for long periods she appealed to natural labour voters. Simarly Mr blair was able to produce the reverse effect.

Britannist · 02-12-2007, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

Mrs. Thatcher won Elections because for long periods she appealed to natural Labour voters. Simarly Mr blair was able to produce the reverse effect.

Exactly.

Many Labour Party members loath her - but how they would have liked to have a leader so strong to lead their own party. Instead they got a vacuous liar called Blair who won the last General Election a good 7% lower in national vote share than Mrs. (now Lady) Thatcher did in the last General Election she fought.

I happen to think that some in Labour would have liked to promise voters that they could buy their council houses but could not do so for doctrinal reasons - consequently Mrs. Thatcher quite rightly took up the idea in the late 1970's (of selling council houses) and demolished many Labour majorities in constituencies up and down the land

.

Good for her.

Smidgey · 02-12-2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

No PM will give you everything you want, political leaders represent partys which are broad churches designed quite understandable to appeal to a broad cross section of the public. Mrs thatcher won Elections because for long periods she appealed to natural labour voters. Simarly Mr blair was able to produce the reverse effect.

Mrs Thatcher slammed F.A. Hayek's 'The Constitution of Liberty' on her desk and told those around her that this is what she believed. It is obvious from her actions that she did not.

A politician should not be representing anyone but the cause of freedom and liberty. Anyone who does anything less is a sell out and a violent thug.

david H · 03-12-2007, 01:31 AM

Lord salisbury, Duke of Wellington, Churchill and Enoch.

rjt · 03-12-2007, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smidgey

Mrs Thatcher slammed F.A. Hayek's 'The Constitution of Liberty' on her desk and told those around her that this is what she believed. It is obvious from her actions that she did not.

A politician should not be representing anyone but the cause of freedom and liberty. Anyone who does anything less is a sell out and a violent thug.

Really so the fact the majority of wages are now decided via free market economics and not via Trade Union Paymasters is not increasing freedom?

The Fact one can now choose your own energy supplier is not more freedom?

The fact it is easier now to buy your own home is not increasing freedom?

The Fact that heavily subsidised sate industrys were privatised does not increase freedom?

The fact that she played a pivotal role in ending the cold war and bringing democracy to milons has nothing to do with freedom?

Get a grip Smidgey no one is going to bring forth the policys you demand which ammount to a dismantling of the welfare state, because there is simply no broad appeal for them, you have to get elected to change things and give more freedom. Mrs Thatcher did that and we have more freedom to choose that we would ever have had under the socialist administrations of the 60s and 70s. For that and much else this country owes Margaret Thatcher a debt we can never repay.

Smidgey · 03-12-2007, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

Really so the fact the majority of wages are now decided via free market economics and not via Trade Union Paymasters is not increasing freedom?

The Fact one can now choose your own energy supplier is not more freedom?

The fact it is easier now to buy your own home is not increasing freedom?

The Fact that heavily subsidised sate industrys were privatised does not increase freedom?

The fact that she played a pivotal role in ending the cold war and bringing democracy to milons has nothing to do with freedom?

She did do good things, not doubt. Her catalyst was the socialist system Labour had constructed bursting at the seams. However, she didn't do enough, which was my point. The fact that she raised taxes during a depression is just one example.

Quote:

Get a grip Smidgey no one is going to bring forth the policys you demand which ammount to a dismantling of the welfare state, because there is simply no broad appeal for them, you have to get elected to change things and give more freedom. Mrs Thatcher did that and we have more freedom to choose that we would ever have had under the socialist administrations of the 60s and 70s. For that and much else this country owes Margaret Thatcher a debt we can never repay.

Indeed, sadly our nations political system is constructed in such a way that it is impossible for anyone to bring sweeping freedom.

rjt · 03-12-2007, 08:09 AM

There are times when taxes need to be raised whatever government is in power even if it cause short term pain, in the long run the ecnomic decisions she took have been proved to be right.

You way would not bring sweeping freedom it would widen the gap between rich and poor and bring absolute poverty to many.

Actually it is the people of this country not the political system which dictates that we need and want a welfare state.

Smidgey · 03-12-2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjt

There are times when taxes need to be raised whatever government is in power even if it cause short term pain, in the long run the ecnomic decisions she took have been proved to be right.

Partially right, not completely right.

Quote:

You way would not bring sweeping freedom it would widen the gap between rich and poor and bring absolute poverty to many.

Where did you draw that conclusion?

Quote:

Actually it is the people of this country not the political system which dictates that we need and want a welfare state.

No, it is a majority of the people of this country who decide on the behalf of everyone what freedoms everyone else will have to give up in order to fund this welfare state. Rule of the majority is our political system - democracy. Just because 80% of the people say one thing doesn't make it right. Never will, never has. 80% have no right to steal wealth from 20% in order to help fund their projects. It is not different than a large mob that outnumbers you 4-1 stealing your money.

View Poll Results: Who Was The Greatest British Conservative Politician?
Duke of Wellington	3	3.70%
Lord Salisbury	4	4.94%
Benjamin Disraeli	4	4.94%
Joseph Chamberlain	4	4.94%
Winston Churchill	21	25.93%
Margerat Thatcher	21	25.93%
Enoch Powell	17	20.99%
Other	7	8.64%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

02-12-2007, 07:59 PM	#33 (permalink)
rjt Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Aldershot Posts: 5,232	No PM will give you everything you want, political leaders represent partys which are broad churches designed quite understandable to appeal to a broad cross section of the public. Mrs thatcher won Elections because for long periods she appealed to natural labour voters. Simarly Mr blair was able to produce the reverse effect. __________________ Mr Delors said that he wanted the European Parliament to be the democratic body of the community, The Commission to be The Executive and The Council Of Ministers The Senate. NO! NO! NO! (Margaret Thatcher 30 Oct 1990) Ignore List: The Prophets of ST Al the Unelectable.

03-12-2007, 01:31 AM	#36 (permalink)
david H Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,062	Lord salisbury, Duke of Wellington, Churchill and Enoch. __________________ http://www.buchanan.org/pa-98-1127.html [url] davidmartin-hamilton.blogspot.com/

03-12-2007, 08:09 AM	#39 (permalink)
rjt Uber Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Aldershot Posts: 5,232	There are times when taxes need to be raised whatever government is in power even if it cause short term pain, in the long run the ecnomic decisions she took have been proved to be right. You way would not bring sweeping freedom it would widen the gap between rich and poor and bring absolute poverty to many. Actually it is the people of this country not the political system which dictates that we need and want a welfare state. __________________ Mr Delors said that he wanted the European Parliament to be the democratic body of the community, The Commission to be The Executive and The Council Of Ministers The Senate. NO! NO! NO! (Margaret Thatcher 30 Oct 1990) Ignore List: The Prophets of ST Al the Unelectable.

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